confirmed

Whisper Chiraneau came to power because Chiraneau could beat Whisper (VI chiraneau, specifically)

it got so bad that Whispers were running rebel captive to counter Whispers (shooting Whisper would stress Whisper, preventing Whisper from recloaking before Whisper could shoot Whisper) and V.I Chiraneau to soak the stress so Whisper could shoot Whisper without getting stressed...

thank **** we're past that

confirmed

Whisper Chiraneau came to power because Chiraneau could beat Whisper (VI chiraneau, specifically)

it got so bad that Whispers were running rebel captive to counter Whispers (shooting Whisper would stress Whisper, preventing Whisper from recloaking before Whisper could shoot Whisper) and V.I Chiraneau to soak the stress so Whisper could shoot Whisper without getting stressed...

thank **** we're past that

To be fair, Rebel Captive is a good choice on Whisper almost independent of the metagame. That upgrade shuts down so many stupid action-chaining tricks, and it messes up target priority so badly, that it's nearly an auto-include on my Imperial lists these days.

OK so apparently the Phantom Nerf is not really a Nerf at all and actually makes the Phantom better by not allowing your decloaks to be blocked. Being blocked was such a major issue that it is probably the main reason they changed the rule in the first place as it was unfair how often Phantoms could not decloak due to being blocked. Post Nerf, Bad players can no longer use Phantoms well and great players are unaffected in any negative way by the Nerf because they were not using the hyper mobility decloak options to devastating effect and were definitely not the reason for the Nerf. Great players don't ever make misjudgments and never used any decloaking option that they had not already decided on in the activation phase anyway and are therefore unaffected by the Nerf. Good to know. [End snarky rant]

So if you read my OP, the main purpose of this thread was to see what Phantoms people are using post nerf. If the answer is the same as before, great, but I doubt this is the case. If we could move away from discussing the reasons why the Nerf isn't a Nerf and discuss what builds are being used to some success, maybe I could try some of them out, get some practice in,and maybe get back to loving, or at least enjoying, my up till recently favorite ship.

So if you read my OP, the main purpose of this thread was to see what Phantoms people are using post nerf. If the answer is the same as before, great, but I doubt this is the case. If we could move away from discussing the reasons why the Nerf isn't a Nerf and discuss what builds are being used to some success, maybe I could try some of them out, get some practice in,and maybe get back to loving, or at least enjoying, my up till recently favorite ship.

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)

Fire-Control System (2)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)

Fire-Control System (2)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I'm thinking about swapping Whisper's FCS for AS though, points spare for initative not being as important as they were.

OK so apparently ..... and discuss what builds are being used to some success, maybe I could try some of them out, get some practice in,and maybe get back to loving, or at least enjoying, my up till recently favorite ship.

The same builds are just fine. A little more 'edge of your seat' to play but I've not really noticed a huge fall in performance. Certainly nothing that has sent me back to the drawing board.

You will need to fly a little differently with those builds though. I've had tournaments pre and post FAQ and have flown against the same players/squads either side. Panic attack games, for example, were nearly identical. I flew too cautiously initially and have found that this is often a mistake. Either keep shooting or use the new de-cloak timing to chuck a feint and completely bug out. 3 B-Wings wasting actions barrel rolling to catch a juicy Echo only to find they have no target and the rest of my squad up their ass was brilliant!

Practice with your old list and get a baseline for what sort of flight paths and tactics you can employ and which ones, if any, you have to abandon.

So if you read my OP, the main purpose of this thread was to see what Phantoms people are using post nerf. If the answer is the same as before, great, but I doubt this is the case. If we could move away from discussing the reasons why the Nerf isn't a Nerf and discuss what builds are being used to some success, maybe I could try some of them out, get some practice in,and maybe get back to loving, or at least enjoying, my up till recently favorite ship.

"Whisper" (32) Veteran Instincts (1) Fire-Control System (2) Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25) Fire-Control System (2) Intelligence Agent (1) Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25) Fire-Control System (2) Intelligence Agent (1) Stygium Particle Accelerator (2) Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I'm thinking about swapping Whisper's FCS for AS though, points spare for initative not being as important as they were.

I enjoyed...

Echo (ACD and VI)

Shadow x2 (ACD and IA)

ACD is an auto include for me as it's a free cloak action.

IA provides me with some intel to make any last minute adjustments.

The PS bid with the Shadows instead of the Sigma's gives me a slight edge I think as I tend to find people gravitating towards low PS these days to throw more ships on the table.

-Cal

Thanks for the info. It seems that the same builds or at least very similar builds with Whisperer or Echo kitted out mostly the same with VI and ACD and/or Shadow/Sigma with ACD or SPA is still going to be the way to go. I guess I will have to play more and get a better feel for the new rules.

Using buzzsaw whisper and Kath I cam in 2nd in a store championship today and tabled 2 of my opponents, we were using the new de-cloak rules and it did not really change my play very much.

Although I ended up with 2 of them in my collection I never actually played the Phantom before the changes, so my perspective on them was from the receiving end.

I did, however, take the plunge and play two games with them the other day using the new de-cloaking rules.

Both games were against the same opponent who was running Corran and Dash. First game was a nightmare, I was literally all over the place and they got squished pretty quickly, without doing anything meaningful. The second was a different matter, I'd sort of learnt how to play them and used them to hunt down Corran, poor little R2-D2 just couldn't generate those replacement shields quickly enough.

I've still got a lot of learning to do, but I enjoyed the experience.

The list was -

Sigma Sqn Pilot: Advanced Sensors, ACD x 2

Bounty Hunter: Recon Spec

Cheers

Baaa

Although I ended up with 2 of them in my collection I never actually played the Phantom before the changes, so my perspective on them was from the receiving end.

I did, however, take the plunge and play two games with them the other day using the new de-cloaking rules.

Both games were against the same opponent who was running Corran and Dash. First game was a nightmare, I was literally all over the place and they got squished pretty quickly, without doing anything meaningful. The second was a different matter, I'd sort of learnt how to play them and used them to hunt down Corran, poor little R2-D2 just couldn't generate those replacement shields quickly enough.

I've still got a lot of learning to do, but I enjoyed the experience.

The list was -

Sigma Sqn Pilot: Advanced Sensors, ACD x 2

Bounty Hunter: Recon Spec

Cheers

Baaa

I think I will try this list or something very similar next game I play. Thanks for the info.