I think what the FAQ change did for the Phantom is directly related to how good of a Phantom pilot a person is. A relatively bad pilot who relied heavily on the free out in 2-3 directions when they were outmaneuvered is going to get trashed with a new Phantom. The best Phantom pilots are going to be more deadly now as they can't safely be ion'd or blocked.

For the average consumer, I think (since it's harder to use) the Phantom is weaker now, since its stat line often requires being outmaneuvered in order to be beaten, and it's easier to do that/easier for blunders to happen on the part of the Phantom pilot.

Well, realistically, the old Phantoms couldn't be blocked either.

This doesn't seem to be a terrific new boon.

I think what the FAQ change did for the Phantom is directly related to how good of a Phantom pilot a person is. A relatively bad pilot who relied heavily on the free out in 2-3 directions when they were outmaneuvered is going to get trashed with a new Phantom. The best Phantom pilots are going to be more deadly now as they can't safely be ion'd or blocked.

For the average consumer, I think (since it's harder to use) the Phantom is weaker now, since its stat line often requires being outmaneuvered in order to be beaten, and it's easier to do that/easier for blunders to happen on the part of the Phantom pilot.

Well, realistically, the old Phantoms couldn't be blocked either.

This doesn't seem to be a terrific new boon.

This is my point about the not being blocked thing. I am just an average player in this game, maybe slightly better than average, in that I win more than I lose in casual games. I am not a tournament player per se, as I have played in only 2 recently, but my record in the tournaments I have played in is exactly 50/50. So I think that it is safe to say that I fall into the "average consumer" mentioned above. So yes for me, the Phantom is worse than it was before, and again, I am not trying to complain about that fact. But to say that good players will be all the more deadly with Phantoms now since they can't be blocked is ridiculous to me. Again I have never had all my decloak areas blocked so that I literally could not decloak, and I am just an average player. I would wager many great players have never had their Phantoms decloak blocked every possible way. I have been ionized and I will agree that the ability to decloak when ionized is a good thing about the nerf. But it makes no sense to say a ship is worse unless you are good and then it is better. Maybe a great player can make a bad situation better, but what if they didn't need to make a bad situation better and were still using the originally great situation. They would be unstoppable which is exactly why FFG nerfed the Phantom in the first place. They in no way made it anything but worse.. It was justified, but definitely worse no matter who you are.

I look at it this way: the candy cane, most of the time, is the move the Phantom wanted to make, and it still is the move the Phantom will want to make. Except now they have to choose which candy cane they're going to commit to, and you can position against their best option (or at least try to).

It's just straight-up worse than the prior option (which is fine, in my opinion).

I think what the FAQ change did for the Phantom is directly related to how good of a Phantom pilot a person is. A relatively bad pilot who relied heavily on the free out in 2-3 directions when they were outmaneuvered is going to get trashed with a new Phantom. The best Phantom pilots are going to be more deadly now as they can't safely be ion'd or blocked.

For the average consumer, I think (since it's harder to use) the Phantom is weaker now, since its stat line often requires being outmaneuvered in order to be beaten, and it's easier to do that/easier for blunders to happen on the part of the Phantom pilot.

Well, realistically, the old Phantoms couldn't be blocked either.

This doesn't seem to be a terrific new boon.

This is my point about the not being blocked thing. I am just an average player in this game, maybe slightly better than average, in that I win more than I lose in casual games. I am not a tournament player per se, as I have played in only 2 recently, but my record in the tournaments I have played in is exactly 50/50. So I think that it is safe to say that I fall into the "average consumer" mentioned above. So yes for me, the Phantom is worse than it was before, and again, I am not trying to complain about that fact. But to say that good players will be all the more deadly with Phantoms now since they can't be blocked is ridiculous to me. Again I have never had all my decloak areas blocked so that I literally could not decloak, and I am just an average player. I would wager many great players have never had their Phantoms decloak blocked every possible way. I have been ionized and I will agree that the ability to decloak when ionized is a good thing about the nerf. But it makes no sense to say a ship is worse unless you are good and then it is better. Maybe a great player can make a bad situation better, but what if they didn't need to make a bad situation better and were still using the originally great situation. They would be unstoppable which is exactly why FFG nerfed the Phantom in the first place. They in no way made it anything but worse.. It was justified, but definitely worse no matter who you are.

I'm going to have to disagree with you for two reasons:

1) When I say a Phantom can't be blocked anymore, I mean previously, yes it's hard to block all possible decloak lanes (though not impossible). It is very possible to block the ideal decloak lanes, and thus steer the Phantom where you want it to go. Previously this is entirely possible, just by blocking the lane that would hurt you the most. Now it's practically impossible to block the lanes since you can't move into a lane blocking position. You'd have to have blocked where the Phantom is going to move to in advance, and that seems incredibly challenging.

2) Changing ionization from "You can't shoot for this round and you are moving 1 forward, let me just turn all of my guns this way" to "You still behave like a phantom, still get to shoot, but have to go 1 straight after your decloak" is a HUGE buff. Ion cannon turrets no longer shut off a Phantom's offense and maneuverability, simple hampering the latter, while leaving the former untouched.

I realize that it may seem like it's a pure nerf, but I assure you the best Phantom players playing against equal skill opponents have benefited in both avoiding having their decloaks steered , dodging another counter (ion), and opening up a strange world where PS 9 Whisper can BLOCK lower PS ships aggressively with decloaks.

Additionally, the part of the quote I've bolded makes perfect sense. They have raised the skill cap of the ship by removing things that lesser players were using as fallback positions, while in no way hurting the players who didn't need to use the fallback decloaks, and in fact buffing those players by giving them offense and maneuverability after being ionized. I stand firmly in my place on this issue, and I'm very confident that I'm correct in this, for the majority share of users it's a nerf, but for those who weren't using the crutch that was taken away, and were already flying the ship optimally, they simply got an ionization buff and the ability to block with their decloaks and avoid being steered.

no, it absolutely makes sense to say a "more practiced" player can make more out of a ship than less practiced players

that is the entire concept of skill floors and ceilings in a nutshell.

Some ships are very easy to use (******* fat han) and some are much more difficult (tie interceptor). You can define this ease by seeing how forgiving a ship is to mistakes

Fat han:

*360 turret (out of arc? who gives a ****), which adds an unparallelled freedom of movement because no matter where you face, you're getting a shot

*hefty total health of 13

*C3PO provides action independent (bumped? obstruction? nah) guaranteed defense

*ability and second crew slot provide action independent offensive modifiers (bumping and obstructions matter even less)

*large ship boost displacement in-case your opponent predicts you

Tie Interceptor:

*you lose you're action, you're an 18+ point tie fighter waiting to get one-shot

The more forgiving a ship, obviously the less a player's mistakes matter. Practiced players will still outperform them my memorizing match-ups and facilitating engagements with the entire squadron, but anyone can slap fat han on the table and be a threat. Meanwhile, the Tie Interceptor ain't having none of that. If you make a mistake, you're probably kissing it goodbye.

similarly, we have Whisper who used to be incredibly forgiving

Whisper:

*Action independent target-lock, re-cloak, focus, and potential crew benefit (gunner, for example) for four agility + focus + potential evade making her incredibly difficult to kill [unchanged by errata]

*pre-movement decloak covering for player error i.t.o positioning (can de-cloak around obstructions and intervening ships before moving) [also unchanged]

*can use said de-cloak to create 3 final positions from which the opposing player has to guess her angle of approach, and by "guess" we mean cover them all because she gets to pick whichever she feels like [errated away]

now that whisper has become less forgiving, less practiced players will do more poorly with her until they get practice (or move onto another pilot) because their mistakes will matter more

more practiced players will abuse the fact that she can now move before anyone (and enjoying the fact that ion doesn't completely cripple her anymore) while negating the errata by using their experience to plan ahead instead of crutching on the old method of de-cloaking

I actually played them for the first time of my own choice since they came out. Before I only prepped friends for tourneys when they requested I beat them with, well they said 'play', but what would happen was I would very solemnly, with much remorse, beat them with phantoms. Now I'm all giggly that one of the squads I came up with when they were announced is now kinda interesting! Three Shadows, Stygium Accelerators, Intelligence Agent, Advanced Sensors on each. Fun to fly but not that good...yet. I'm recommitting to the game after giving serious thought to just moving to another FFG game. Now I've got the problem though of being in three SW FFG games :/

1) When I say a Phantom can't be blocked anymore, I mean previously, yes it's hard to block all possible decloak lanes (though not impossible). It is very possible to block the ideal decloak lanes, and thus steer the Phantom where you want it to go.

If this was both true & a significant factor in counter-play against the Phantom, can you explain why the Phantom's best match-up was against swarm lists, and the match-up was considered to be so favorable for the Phantoms that the best players thought of it as nearly unwinnable?

have you tried getting 2 dice offense through 4 green dice ?

BBBBZ has 14 attack dice per turn (3 attack on 4 of the ships, 2 attack on the lone Z).

Well this is really what he phantoms ought to be. But now the only options are even more expensive.

I think Nigeltastic got it spot on.

Before, the Phantom was stupid easy to arc dodge with and then had 4 green dice (usually an evade too) to defend against the 1 or 2 ships per turn that managed to get it into arc.

It was a crutch ship that many average players used to play at a much higher level.

Now those players are being found out and have to (re)learn how to pre-plan movement and improve.

Good players are still good players - they will/have adapt/ed to the new Phantom.

Or have simply moved on, as it is no longer cost-efficient unless you go for Echo/generics.

the phantom is not cost efficient by nature regardless of variant, you couldn't ever just joust with it and hope to do well

I am not sure where people are getting the idea that whisper is somehow not worth taking because of the errata. She's still clowning around with a 4/4 + free defensive focus profile to absolutely infuriate anything that runs up against her.

She's just not the phantom anymore.

Or have simply moved on, as it is no longer cost-efficient unless you go for Echo/generics.

Other ships that are also very inefficient:

• Decimators
• Fat Falcons
• Mangler Outriders
• 35-point Fel
• 42-point Corran

Based on?

The amount of money you have to put into it to fly it.

I agree. FFG has done it again. The phantom change now makes it fun to play with and against. Sure you have to wrack your brain when playing one, but now it almost feels like every other ship in the game. Apart from the turret ships, which a easy mode IMO. Once they change it so you only get +1 attack die at range 1, in your primary arc, for 360 primary weapons. Then they will not be easy mode any more, either.

As for the Phantom, when I bring my lists, I no longer feel as dirty playing them.

Or have simply moved on, as it is no longer cost-efficient unless you go for Echo/generics.

Other ships that are also very inefficient:

• Decimators
• Fat Falcons
• Mangler Outriders
• 35-point Fel
• 42-point Corran

Based on?

Based on the projected total offense over each ship's lifespan from a statistical perspective, before adjusting for upgrades and maneuvering. Those adjustments, of course, make all of those ships look pretty cost-effective... and they do the same for Whisper.

As others have said, the learning curve on Phantoms is steeper now, but there's nothing inherently bad about them.

Aye, and they are also easier to counter now, because on top of the existing hard-counters, the Phantom Hysteria Movement have gotten training wheels for their low PS ships - where normally, player skill was needed.

The recent change made Whisper even more skill dependant (hooray for the semi-death of Candy-Caning), which is a good, albeit unnecessary thing. imho.

Spending 1-3 points in a list to hard counter "the shark" and adjust battle plans if you meet a Phantom was not an issue for me personally.

But C'est la vie.

Aye, and they are also easier to counter now, because on top of the existing hard-counters, the Phantom Hysteria Movement have gotten training wheels for their low PS ships - where normally, player skill was needed.

The recent change made Whisper even more skill dependant (hooray for the semi-death of Candy-Caning), which is a good, albeit unnecessary thing. imho.

Spending 1-3 points in a list to hard counter "the shark" and adjust battle plans if you meet a Phantom was not an issue for me personally.

But C'est la vie.

You could just as easily cast the same set of facts as the training wheels being taken away from the Phantom (now you have to plan and anticipate), rather than being given to everything else.

But look at it this way: if the problem with the Phantom was genuine, it's been solved. If the problem with the Phantom was the result of collective hysteria out of proportion to its actual effect, then the problem has been solved.

I ran whisper last night and did not find the change to be a big deal at all. I think the change will simply weed out the mediocre to bad phantom players

They managed to make the Phantom more balanced AND more fun to play with and against. It's a great change.

Or have simply moved on, as it is no longer cost-efficient unless you go for Echo/generics.

Other ships that are also very inefficient:

• Decimators
• Fat Falcons
• Mangler Outriders
• 35-point Fel
• 42-point Corran

Based on?

Based on the projected total offense over each ship's lifespan from a statistical perspective, before adjusting for upgrades and maneuvering. Those adjustments, of course, make all of those ships look pretty cost-effective... and they do the same for Whisper.

As others have said, the learning curve on Phantoms is steeper now, but there's nothing inherently bad about them.

I do suspect - given that even pre-FAQ Phantoms were in decline due to the presence of Han - that many players will be moving away from them to things like Decimator / Soontir or Vader + whatever, where you're unlikely to be shut out of a match due to a single bad guess and able to output consistent damage. With the Phantom's best match-ups shifting from 'almost a bye' to 'good', I don't see a reason to fly it over other strong(er?) options aside from love of the ship.

well love of the ship is a pretty **** good reason

this is game after all, right ?

not to mention love of the ship translate directly into how much time/effort you're willing to invest into learning how to effectively pilot it, and those that do will be able to preform some scary scary deeds

it's a skill dependent ship, now, match-ups are secondary next to how well you can fly it (except against turrets, only your skills with the dice matter then)

Or have simply moved on, as it is no longer cost-efficient unless you go for Echo/generics.

Other ships that are also very inefficient:

• Decimators
• Fat Falcons
• Mangler Outriders
• 35-point Fel
• 42-point Corran

Based on?

Based on the projected total offense over each ship's lifespan from a statistical perspective, before adjusting for upgrades and maneuvering. Those adjustments, of course, make all of those ships look pretty cost-effective... and they do the same for Whisper.

As others have said, the learning curve on Phantoms is steeper now, but there's nothing inherently bad about them.

I do suspect - given that even pre-FAQ Phantoms were in decline due to the presence of Han - that many players will be moving away from them to things like Decimator / Soontir or Vader + whatever, where you're unlikely to be shut out of a match due to a single bad guess and able to output consistent damage. With the Phantom's best match-ups shifting from 'almost a bye' to 'good', I don't see a reason to fly it over other strong(er?) options aside from love of the ship.

It's true that people were bringing ships geared to drop Whisper in one round. While this might make it seem like she would be less common it really didn't.

The reason?

They ran Whisper with those ships.