So by now everyone should be aware of the Tie Phantom Nerf that happened a while back. As an Imperial player, I would be lying if I were to say I was totally happy with it even though I understand it and even kind of think it is a good change. I just wish it had been that way from the start so that us Phantom players would not have to re-learn one of our favorite ships that is usually a large part of any list it is in. So anyway I am not really trying to complain or discuss the merits of or problems with the Phantom Nerf. I have used the Phantom only twice since the change, and both times it has not done well or even done fair. It has not made its points up or really even done much in either game. I know that is my fault as I am not yet used to the new way it works. So my question is, which build, tactics, strategies, etc have you used to make it work well, and if not as great as it used to be, at least be a productive part of your squad. Any help or info would be great. I'm going to try again tonight and would like to be more prepared. Thanks.

Here is a transcript of my inner monologue

oooh this white typie section is bright I ought to turn the gamma down...nah it's dark and the buttons are over there what does this guy making this post want? Wait is my pizza burning? so dubidobido Phantom ..... nerf: Jesus it's getting cold, I should close the window.

The transcript ends here, I guess I had no useful thoughts.

The major changes are in the information economy, not the mechanics.

(1) You have less information when you pick your decloak.

This means you need to carefully consider your opponent's likely moves, and plan both your maneuver and your decloak to maximize your attacks and minimize your exposure. If you're struggling with this part, Intelligence Agent can really help.

(2) Your opponent has more information when his or her ships activate.

When a Blue Squadron Pilot activated, it used to need to anticipate 45 possible landing locations for a Phantom. Now that's been cut to no more than 15, and probably fewer. So that Blue is now much more able to anticipate and follow the Phantom's maneuvering with its own maneuver + barrel roll, and other ships that can reposition in the activation phase have a similar advantage.

This is harder to adjust to or counter, but not impossible. You can defeat it by thinking further ahead than your opponent is, and you can also turn it your advantage with upgrades that improve your defense rolls. Things like Lone Wolf and Sensor Jammer can work very nicely to reduce the variation in your green dice, and helps you ride out some of the attacks you'll be subject to now.

One thing that hasn't changed for the named Phantoms is the PS bid; if anything, it has become even more crucial, so never leave home without your VI. Next, you might want to put something on your Phantoms that punish people for targeting them (now that you won't be able to dodge as many arcs as before). So, herd up some rebel captives.

Were I a Phantom driver (and I'm not), I would probably go down another route, and start looking into fielding cheaper stygium-phantoms. I wouldn't worry about PS bids, in stead I would seek to find the points to field other ships alongside my cheaper Phantoms that my opponent would have a hard time ignoring, in that way drawing fire away from my Phantoms.

I should be more worried but I'm not. I still plan on using Whisper locally in the before time(regionals!!). I'm concerned more about MOV than the nerf for phantom squads.

How many squads have the after move maneuverability to hose the phantom now? Han is still gross, most people will not fly IG well, and fire sprays have some dice difficulty against the hard ship check. I tend to not believe a corner build will pull through(some always do)so my faith in the meta remains on the pillars of efficiency.

When a Blue Squadron Pilot activated, it used to need to anticipate 45 possible landing locations for a Phantom. Now that's been cut to no more than 15, and probably fewer.

But by then it only has barrel roll to react with. When it sets its dial, the phantom still has a collosal number of possible final positions. You're better off looking at your ships rather than at it to guess where it's going to go. One of the tricks to phantom killing is baiting them.

It's a better thematic fit to cloaking and more tactically interesting. In terms of quality, it's improved. In terms of power, mostly the same. In terms of ease of use, much more difficult.

I wouldn't say it's less powerful (4 dice is 4 dice, decloak is decloak and 4 agility is 4 agility), but it's less forgiving. When using it, you can no longer choose the 1 turn and work out your maneuver when you do it, you have to plan both the decloak or lack thereof and the maneuver in advance. It's no less maneuverable but it's lost that reactive ability.

When fighting it, when it cloaks now it is in one of those three (or six for Echo) positions, it's not in whichever one you didn't cover. If your opponent reads you correctly and guesses where your phantom is, you can no longer change your mind when you maneuver and make it somewhere else. Its position is still hidden, but it is somewhere.

The shortest explanation is that the phantom's move can now be anticipated, cloak is cloak rather than super barrel roll. If you're playing it, you need to plan your whole move when you set your dial. If you're fighting it, it's now possible to guess where it's going to go, just like every other ship in the game.

Had a strangely aggressive whisper just run through 3 bwings because an amazing toss of green dice followed by a perfect hit kept her on one hull and obliterated a poor blue squaddie.

Jake got her in the end (yay outmaneuver) but the might of the 4/4 statline has not diminished at all.

Honestly, this is the best thing that could have happened. Phantoms are WAY more fun to fly now and even the generics are great.

When a Blue Squadron Pilot activated, it used to need to anticipate 45 possible landing locations for a Phantom. Now that's been cut to no more than 15, and probably fewer.

But by then it only has barrel roll to react with. When it sets its dial, the phantom still has a collosal number of possible final positions. You're better off looking at your ships rather than at it to guess where it's going to go. One of the tricks to phantom killing is baiting them.

It's a better thematic fit to cloaking and more tactically interesting. In terms of quality, it's improved. In terms of power, mostly the same. In terms of ease of use, much more difficult.

I wouldn't say it's less powerful (4 dice is 4 dice, decloak is decloak and 4 agility is 4 agility), but it's less forgiving. When using it, you can no longer choose the 1 turn and work out your maneuver when you do it, you have to plan both the decloak or lack thereof and the maneuver in advance. It's no less maneuverable but it's lost that reactive ability.

When fighting it, when it cloaks now it is in one of those three (or six for Echo) positions, it's not in whichever one you didn't cover. If your opponent reads you correctly and guesses where your phantom is, you can no longer change your mind when you maneuver and make it somewhere else. Its position is still hidden, but it is somewhere.

The shortest explanation is that the phantom's move can now be anticipated, cloak is cloak rather than super barrel roll. If you're playing it, you need to plan your whole move when you set your dial. If you're fighting it, it's now possible to guess where it's going to go, just like every other ship in the game.

This.

I've been saying it since the FAQ (usually to ridicule). It's barely a nerf, especially if you consider the fact that your decloak lane can't be blocked now (unless the opponents are already in your decloak area at the end of the previous maneuver).

I run Phantoms regularly. I like the change. I don't feel pigeonholed into Echo and Whisper w/ VI. I've been successfully running Shadow x2 with Echo. I still use ACD as I can't pass up a free cloak action and the change has required me to play more of the thinking mans game, overall though I think low PS builds are doable; stay out of range 1 and evade.

-Cal

It gives advanced sensors and ps1-8 ships with boost or barrel roll a slight buff in position versus Whisper. It's really nice and gives us about 30 more options to have a shot at killing whisper.

If you were tired of ps9-11 turrets then you should be extatic about the change.

I recently played quite a few games with the new FAQ using Whisper w/ VI, FCS, gunner & ACD. Its still pretty powerful. The games I won were because I was able to put a good amount of damage on the key ships I needed to destroy, and once the opponent was down a bit, they just didn't have the number of guns to take Whisper out (she's still pretty tanky, and can possibly dodge an arc or two with that barrel roll).

The games I lost were when my opponent was good at predicting where she'd end up and training multiple guns on her. Pre-FAQ, if I saw a bunch of ships pointing right where I wanted to decloak to, I could just pick a different direction, and even though I might not have any shots, at least I was out of arc and could recloak and try again next turn. That luxury is gone now and smart opponents will definitely punish you for 'obvious' decloaks. So I guess you can't just decloak to the side and 1 hard turn back towards the enemy all game long anymore

I've been thinking about a new list involving two Sigmas. Some practice so far has shown that it might be promising. The problem I had with the Sigma before is that with Enhanced Scopes its a good blocker, but doing so gives up firepower because the Sigma is almost always using its tokens defensively or barrel rolling for the block or to dodge arc or better positioning, etc. So basically, I feel it really needs that FCS. Post-FAQ, I'm hoping it can get away without the Enhanced Scopes, so you can freely use tokens/barrel rolls for defense and rely on the TL from FCS for decent damage. One Sigma has Intel Agent to help with blocking, and the other has Mara Jade to stop k-turns once in the middle of the furball...still not proven effective, but I'm hopeful!

Honestly, this is the best thing that could have happened. Phantoms are WAY more fun to fly now and even the generics are great.

I would disagree that Phantoms are WAY more fun to play. They are WAY more of a challenge to play well, but my overall enjoyment has gone down some and I think that will continue until I re-learn to fly them well. As far as generics being good now, what are you using to good effect? I've used sigmas and shadows with SPA and they have mean "men" at best.

When a Blue Squadron Pilot activated, it used to need to anticipate 45 possible landing locations for a Phantom. Now that's been cut to no more than 15, and probably fewer.

But by then it only has barrel roll to react with. When it sets its dial, the phantom still has a collosal number of possible final positions. You're better off looking at your ships rather than at it to guess where it's going to go. One of the tricks to phantom killing is baiting them.

It's a better thematic fit to cloaking and more tactically interesting. In terms of quality, it's improved. In terms of power, mostly the same. In terms of ease of use, much more difficult.

I wouldn't say it's less powerful (4 dice is 4 dice, decloak is decloak and 4 agility is 4 agility), but it's less forgiving. When using it, you can no longer choose the 1 turn and work out your maneuver when you do it, you have to plan both the decloak or lack thereof and the maneuver in advance. It's no less maneuverable but it's lost that reactive ability.

When fighting it, when it cloaks now it is in one of those three (or six for Echo) positions, it's not in whichever one you didn't cover. If your opponent reads you correctly and guesses where your phantom is, you can no longer change your mind when you maneuver and make it somewhere else. Its position is still hidden, but it is somewhere.

The shortest explanation is that the phantom's move can now be anticipated, cloak is cloak rather than super barrel roll. If you're playing it, you need to plan your whole move when you set your dial. If you're fighting it, it's now possible to guess where it's going to go, just like every other ship in the game.

This.

I've been saying it since the FAQ (usually to ridicule). It's barely a nerf, especially if you consider the fact that your decloak lane can't be blocked now (unless the opponents are already in your decloak area at the end of the previous maneuver).

OK to say its "barely a nerf" is ridiculous. The ship went from being crazy hard to lock down in firing arc to pretty easy, especially if you have post maneuver movement actions like boost or barrel roll. And if you were having situations where all three(six in Echo's case) decloak areas where blocked, you were doing it wrong. I'm not overly opposed to the Nerf as I think that it was warranted, but to say it was "barely a Nerf" is rather disingenuous.

It gives advanced sensors and ps1-8 ships with boost or barrel roll a slight buff in position versus Whisper. It's really nice and gives us about 30 more options to have a shot at killing whisper.

If you were tired of ps9-11 turrets then you should be extatic about the change.

Why do people keep saying that the Phantom Nerf will hurt fat turreted ships? I can't see how it will hurt them at all! While it may cause them to be used less as a Phantom deferent, it will have no effect on their efficiency. I think Auto thrusters will do that, not any change to the Phantom.

Why do people keep saying that the Phantom Nerf will hurt fat turreted ships?.

As for the change itself, I play phantoms regularly and I absolutely LOVED the new flight mode. It made the ship so much more fun to fly.

Phantom errata sadly had no effect on the stupidity of the turret rule

The primary turret still completly nullifies any manueverablity and four green dice remain your only defensive option. Until ffg changes this incredibly lazy advantage (take a page from the phantom and force them to pick a facing for their turret before anything moves so there's some actual thought required) this errata did literally nothing.

Which is sad, because generic phantoms just get pulverized by stupid turrets (I maintain han is why ACD was ever invented). Only auto thrusters give any meaning to maneuvering against turrets.

As for "not a big nerf" it really isn't (relative to posts such as the OP)

Flying a phantom is no longer trivial, you need to think ahead and strategize.

They have become more difficult to play (though whisp can still steamroll a bit) and will take more than 2 games to get acclimated to, but they still boast every unique advantage they had.

A neatly unparralled offense

The two most sought after upgrade slots in the game

A stupid 4/4 profile with ACD

And decloaking

All that's changed is whisper demands more from the player whereas before all anyone needed was a pulse and a working eye. Poor girl had to raise her standards

OK to say its "barely a nerf" is ridiculous. The ship went from being crazy hard to lock down in firing arc to pretty easy, especially if you have post maneuver movement actions like boost or barrel roll. And if you were having situations where all three(six in Echo's case) decloak areas where blocked, you were doing it wrong. I'm not overly opposed to the Nerf as I think that it was warranted, but to say it was "barely a Nerf" is rather disingenuous.

I disagree. I've never had problems killing phantoms with anything but TIE swarms. Sure, TIE swarms are slightly more viable now but the Z-95 Feedback swarm is suddenly less viable so it's kind of a zero-sum gain. Sure, pilots that are less than PS9 and have boost or barrel roll have less of a disadvantage than before but the phantom still has barrel roll. The only thing that suddenly became stronger are interceptors with push the limit (not even including autothrusters). If the change was to decloaking at the end of the combat phase or beginning of the planning phase, that would be one thing; but your dials are set. Boost or barrel roll alone can only go so far and they cost a focus/evade that weaker ships desperately need against four attack dice. The phantom is barely nerfed, players will just need to slightly update their tactics.

*Edited for wording.

feedback array has lost exactly none of its usefulnes

Arc-dodgers ain't no thing, it's the green dice that screw Zs over

feedback array has lost exactly none of its usefulnes

Arc-dodgers ain't no thing, it's the green dice that screw Zs over

Again, I was easily able to put phantoms exactly where I wanted them with Z-95s prior to FAQ update due to blocking all or most of their lanes (depending on the pilot). It's a little more difficult to get into that range 1 now and FA should really be fully considered before using. Autodamage is strong but you're also auto-damaging yourself. The green dice aren't the bane of the Z-95; the shield makes up for it (as long as you're not afraid to spend your focus on the green dice).

Phantom errata sadly had no effect on the stupidity of the turret rule

The primary turret still completly nullifies any manueverablity and four green dice remain your only defensive option. Until ffg changes this incredibly lazy advantage (take a page from the phantom and force them to pick a facing for their turret before anything moves so there's some actual thought required) this errata did literally nothing.

A turreted ship gets 1 attack per round. If said turreted ship is Han or Chewie, the fattest of the fat, those attacks are with 3 dice.

Maneuvering against a turret is still important - you want to get as many of your guns on that ship as possible, even if you can't dodge out of the arc because lol turret. If he's throwing 3 reds and you're throwing 12, it really does not matter all that much that he doesn't have to point his ship at you.

I think what the FAQ change did for the Phantom is directly related to how good of a Phantom pilot a person is. A relatively bad pilot who relied heavily on the free out in 2-3 directions when they were outmaneuvered is going to get trashed with a new Phantom. The best Phantom pilots are going to be more deadly now as they can't safely be ion'd or blocked.

For the average consumer, I think (since it's harder to use) the Phantom is weaker now, since its stat line often requires being outmaneuvered in order to be beaten, and it's easier to do that/easier for blunders to happen on the part of the Phantom pilot.

I know how to beat turrets (throw dice at them, so fun!)

doesn't make them any less stupid

not unbalanced, not broken, just stupid and stupid boring

the only unbalance I could cite was their interactions with ships that required maneuverability to survive, which they affect unduely by just throwing maneuverability out the window. This is why interceptors were in the bargain bin prior to auto-thrusters and why we probably still won't see many phantoms without ACD

When fighting it, when it cloaks now it is in one of those three (or six for Echo) positions, it's not in whichever one you didn't cover...you can no longer change your mind when you maneuver and make it somewhere else. Its position is still hidden, but it is somewhere.

...If you're fighting it, it's now possible to guess where it's going to go, just like every other ship in the game.

This, a thousand times over.

When fighting it, when it cloaks now it is in one of those three (or six for Echo) positions, it's not in whichever one you didn't cover...you can no longer change your mind when you maneuver and make it somewhere else. Its position is still hidden, but it is somewhere.

...If you're fighting it, it's now possible to guess where it's going to go, just like every other ship in the game.

This, a thousand times over.

Not any more so than before when you put your dial down.

I think what the FAQ change did for the Phantom is directly related to how good of a Phantom pilot a person is. A relatively bad pilot who relied heavily on the free out in 2-3 directions when they were outmaneuvered is going to get trashed with a new Phantom. The best Phantom pilots are going to be more deadly now as they can't safely be ion'd or blocked.

For the average consumer, I think (since it's harder to use) the Phantom is weaker now, since its stat line often requires being outmaneuvered in order to be beaten, and it's easier to do that/easier for blunders to happen on the part of the Phantom pilot.

This is probably the most accurate statement here.

ive watched some vids without trying it myself but i think they work just fine even if i wasnt a fan of it from the very beginning but i might try em out. they seem to be more challenging to me now.