Just curious. Did Kevin ever get back to you? I have been asking nicely privately with my FFG contacts and now I call them out publicly. Why are you not supporting your creations? You used to do this all the time FFG, so why did you stop? Was it because now you have a controlled support that you can count on to buy the new hot product before moving on to the next? I think that number can safely be assumed to be around 2,000 because that is how many War of the Ring collectors copies are being made.

I cannot believe I am doing this! I used to consider myself one of the largest FFG and Blizzard fans (having contacts with both) and now both companies have taken the wrong turn down the path of greed over the path of passion.

If I am wrong FFG then show your pride by proving me wrong. So far I have been told to keep quiet and that is all. Kevin do you still have the same passion for Descent that you did when you made journeys into the dark? It would seriously calm my concerns if you would just defend yourself. Why are there so many errors in the quest compendium? Are you really going to just keep quiet as a fan, that has submitted tons of material for FFG games since Runebound first edition, calls you out.

Of course you are. Why defend yourself and risk saying something you will regret when you can just let the other fanboys handle the challenger for you, as the errors still go unfixed and they still continue to buy the products. By the way I liked how when Kevin posted in here how everyone thanked him instead of question him.

Maybe this post went to far, but I am angry. The store I found the compendium in, plastic wrapped the book so I could not read through it before buying it. After talking with the employee working their the next day he told me the manager did that because he had read about the issues in the forums and did not want people to read through it and not buy it thanks to glaring errors. Thanks Kevin. For the first time ever I feel ripped off by a company I have given many hours and dollars to.

I will still buy Sea of Blood. I will be looking for errors. I expect it to be error free just to make up for the errors in the Quest Compendium. Want to live up to my challenge? Show me the passion you have by insuring Seas of Blood to be error free. I know you are a good person Kevin fight the corruption and do what is right.

darkkami said:

As consumers, we have a right to take our money elsewhere. That's it. Being able to do that empowers us a great deal; however, at no point are we entitled to, say, "call someone out" or post a 6-paragraph rant about consumer anger and expect any kind of response.

The vendor/purchaser relationship is full of power imbalances, so it's very important to avoid losing any advantage. Respect for opinion brings with it an expectation of civility: failing that expectation naturally results in a loss of that respect, leaving "purchasing power" as the only method of communication. If Blizzard and FFG even bother speaking with their customers anymore, it's more a sign of patience (and consideration for that purchasing power) than anything else.

There are many methods to communicate with a company in order to address problems with their practices and methodologies. Your post makes it harder to continue using the forums for that purpose.

I, for one, do not have a personal connection to these game creators, so I must remain as civil as possible; this includes thanking Kevin or any of the FFG staff when they take time out of their schedules to cater to the officially designated open soapbox. It's called positive reinforcement, and companies use it all the time when dealing with consumers like us. If I had some kind of direct connection (and experience, time, etc.) I would draw up a presentation to attempt to demonstrate my views, or possibly a business model proposal. However, even if I just called them up like a buddy, I would still tread lightly when attempting to tell them how to do their jobs.

I think I'm getting a little sidetracked here. Is there a current, comprehensive list of the errors in the compendium?

I don't fully agree with this last post. I think civility is important, but consumers have a right to express frustration. The Compendium is full of errors, and has been out for months and months, without a word from FFG. I have been a loyal purchaser of Descent and other products, and I think it's OK to voice frustration. I think it would reflect more poorly on FFG to take the position described: "What? You are upset by the flaws in the product? You want an FAQ so you can make use of this item you paid money for? Don't forget to say PLEASE!" I would hope that FFG would view this list as a resource for producing the FAQ, and that's one of the reasons I keep posting here. I think the mere fact of posting shows some faith in the company that the posting will matter in some way.

In By a Brother Betrayed, there looks to be only one rune key, though there is more than one rune door. I'm assuming they are doors, though they have triangular ends. Also, there is a section with white doors with square ends and white doors with triangle ends, and I don't know what the difference is there, if any. Also, there are only two glyphs on the rather large map.

Yeepee ! I finally got it ! I'm glad, new quests and all to pick into, that's great. I still am glad with original quests, also sometimes, it feels frustrating (today we had this two players game with quest 5 of original game, vanilla that is, and the two heroes have been slaughtered like crazy in the very very first area without even getting to the stairs or the chests... that was... painful and frustrating to watch.)

Hem said:

2 Heroes are going to get slaughtered no matter what quest you're playing. The 1-2 fewer health each monster has doesn't come close to making up for their inability to prevent you from spawning near them and extreme action disadvantage. I'd suggest using 2 characters each if there are only 3 players available.

Painter said:

Expressing frustration doesn't have to be done in an aggressive or confrontational manner. In the past, frustration has been expressed successfully by compiling error/question lists and sending them in (which resulted in FAQ's and FAQ updates), not by attempting to shame Kevin or FFG with a Challenge.

Thundercles said:

No, expressing furstration doesn't have to be done in an aggressive or confrontational manner. But that is the natural and logical escalation if you're convinced that less aggressive options are not going to succeed. It makes it less likely that the other party will accede out of kindness, but more likely that they'll accede out of embarassment, or out of a practical desire to reduce the amount of complaining their potential customers are exposed to. It can also be a public service to other potential customers to alert them to the fact that the product may be unsatisfactory.

I'm not endorsing (or condemning) the particular rant in question, but it's certainly not categorically a bad idea to make public or vehement complaints about a product you don't like. You should also take into account that it's been three weeks since KevinW said he'd "have a look this week" (which was itself six weeks after this complaint thread was started), and darkkami says he's tried other options before this.

And yeah, it's inconvenient for people who are still pursuing plan A, but this is the Internet, you can't expect everyone to back your strategy of choice.

James McMurray said:

Hey James, thanks for the tip. Thing, I kinda managed to let only 2 players win some of the original quests ; you know, not being too mean, not beaing too spawny every turn... but there, without being mean, I just did my Overlord's job, you know ? And I felt pity for them. I mean, a thirty minutes game, wow, never seen that in Descent. Anyway, thanks.

Having met him, Kevin Wilson is a really nice guy. I'm sure he's also at the whim of the company in general.

I just wish to add one thought. Imagine you're considering getting the game, and check the available resources - Board Game Geek, or this, the home forum. Where, to your shock, you realize that threads are full of discontent about the support for the game, or abut the quality of the products.

You will think twice before buying.

The Compendium contains many very good ideas. I have done a lot of scenarios and campains both as a hero and as a Overlord.

So the ideas are good, and the idea to create this book was good. the quests however were done by the different writters at home, there was no contact between them and they were asked to innovate and do as they please.

There are many errors, I think it was to hard to correct the quests will all the different people involved. If you use this book you really should be an accomplished Overlord and adapt them.

Even the really fun dungeon has a small mistake (no red key) so either you out one or change the door. Just adapt and have fun this is a game after all.

I have modified/corrected at least five quests with minor problems. (Minor means takes 5 minutes to correct!)

Grouik, would you mind posting your fixes to the broken quests that you have corrected? I play with someone who likes to be the OL, but could probably stand some expert assistance, or at least someone else's take on these. You could e-mail me privately at [email protected] . It would be much appreciated!!

grouik said:

That's the job of the editor. "It's hard" is not an excuse. I don't accept that from my employees and I don't accept it from people I give my money to.

This isn't the first time a bunch of different writers have come together to produce a book. It happens all the time with short story collections and other items. I think it just goes to show that this book was thrown together with very little oversight and effort. It's very distressing that it appears that the adventures were not playtested. Maybe they were and the comments did not make it into the final book. Who knows. The poor results though are very obvious.

I just want FFG to come out with a plan for fixes, maybe a PDF update for owners. I would really love an updated book and a replacement process but I highly doubt that will happen.

edroz said:

You are right, however you will notice that when they are mistakes in a book after printing they are no FAQ, and no reprints until all the first ones are sold. So you do ask for more from the game world. And it is harder. They had all the expansions to check and rules that change with versions.

I agree that I saw mistakes at first glance, but truly it took five minutes to solve before playing so who cares if the players are happy? Also those writers do not work for FFG... And I almost sure this was freelance work.

The book was done in haste as you can see from the drawings which are all slightly skewed (correct term?).

The game world problem is this, make good games quickly and very fast because less costly but also because the consummer asks for it. We are in a world of quick fixes, quick solutions (lose X pounds in x days, become Arnold in a week, go on holiday in never land this we, receive shopping at home from your pc...) and quality loses...

I worked indirectly for FFG and the timetable was crazy!

I think this book was a fun side project and that our reactions will not push them to do another. It takes a lot of time to contact people who work all around the country and to collect their writings as they must be also very occupied!

Well I did not mind taking a few minutes for my enjoyment and the one of my players!

Schmiegel said:

I will send you a translation!

grouik said:

First off you basically say "it's hard" and then you say you "saw mistakes at first glance, but truly it took five minutes to solve". Which is it? If it was as easy as you claim to see the problems and fix them, why did FFG not spend an afternoon reading the final draft and fix the problems?

Personally, I would rather FGG take the extra time to produce an error free product than rush out an obviously defective book. I would have waited another month or so to have an editor experienced with Descent read through the adventures and see if they worked. And yes, I do own a copy of the book in question, which was pre-ordered before the quality issues were know.

Schmiegel said:

I would love to know what fixes you have made. Couldn't you post them here?

edroz said:

You are right it seems contradictory. As I said I worked for FFG (via Edge) and saw what happens. You work on 2 or 3 games simultaneously and you have to check everything! You find mistakes you wouldn't believe! I have to check the color of dices for example, or the exact powers and level of monsters, one card after another...

Oh no this one is not the same red as this one please redo it! (and check again all of them when they do...)

Why did you print the cards in letter format? (yes did happen! ^^) Very funny the huge cards!

Why did you print those in spanish ? (Or german or sometimes a mix of 3 languages!)

Oups you did not print the left pages of the book... (final step...)

There is a line missing there...

These are blatant mistakes and even though some get through because of lack of time or money problems...

But from the comfort of my own home when I open the book and read it carefully I saw many mistakes!

If you write a lot you arrive at a moment when you cannot find your own mistakes anymore and the problem is you are on a tight schedule. Maybe the book was to get out for the GENCON? or a big event? Like sea of blood for Essen!

I really think those guys do their best. And when I work for them I work 16 hours a day 7 days a week just to do my best too.

My only point is this, yes there are mistakes, yes they are regrettable, let's not get angry, let's make a FAQ and I will put my corrections on this site.

Painter said:

Sure I just have to translate them!

grouik said:

Something worth noting perhaps.

Although many of us complain, directly or indirectly, about the abominable rules writing and errors, it is important to be clear here. The fault is not necessarily that of the individuals assigned to do these jobs and 'not being good enough' but of the company behind those individuals that doesn't allow enough time in scheduling for editing and proofing.

The anger at the poor product values exhibited throught Descent rules, is fair, but although the angry statements might be about 'abominable rules writing' (to take one of my own expressions as an example) the anger is not directed at the rules writer as an individual but at the company that allows an essentially unfinished product to be sold.

Corbon said:

I agree completely!

But the company will say : This job was done by such and such (correct term) and so it is their fault if the customer is not happy. let's reprimand or fire them!

The goal is to have fun here! let's not waste too much time on problems there are enough everywhere else!

Grouik.....thanks for the offer to translate and post your corrections! It's very much appreciated. I will be looking forward to that. You have a great attitude.

Corbon said:

Agreed for the most part. My main frustration with this whole Compendium issue is the complete lack of responses of ANY KIND from the manufacturer and all we can do is speculate on the "how, why, who, and what can or will be done" to fix these issues. Well, mostly complete lack- we did hear from Kevin who mentioned he'd look into it and get back to us....

I still think that mass releasing a product with so many flaws/erratas/changes needed is just plain bad marketing and publicity.

It seems to me that FFG either needs to:

a) lighten up on their schedule, which will probably make a number of fans disappointed, impatient as we are for new stuff

b) hire more help to take care of everything properly within the scheduling constraints. There's no "can't afford it" when talking about a company as large as FFG.