Whoops: Second problem with Demonic Possession: There needs to be a rule that the OL cannot play a crushing block such that it blocks the demon's path to and over the rift, or the OL can break the scenario with a simple crushing block trap.

There are no extra rune doors in any expansion (unless there's some in RtL, which would enormously surprise me). However, check the quest carefully; I haven't see the quest compendium, but I've written a quest that uses two of each runelocked door where two of the same color are never on the board at the same time due to special quest rules.

I took another look. There are actually three blue rune doors in the first part of Siege of Tamalir, all of which would be on the board at the same time, and I still can't find any means of getting the keys. The same two problems hold true of the two yellow rune doors as well (both on the board together, no keys).

The Siege of Tamalir, as noted early on in this forum, has problems with the Area descriptions. The Area 1 description is seemingly the Area 2 description (and thus there is no Area 1 text), though the Area 2 description also seems to apply to Area 2. In other words, there's no Area 1 description, and the text for Area 1 and 2 apply together to Area 2. The Area 4 description has flavor text, but nothing else. No special rules in Area 4 then, I guess?

Area 1 must be the starting area because there's an activated glyph there. It's also rather odd that there is another unactivated glyph 5 spaces to the right of the starting glyph.

Painter said:

I think that :
- the area labelled "Area 1" is in fact "Starting Area"
- the area labelled "Area 2" is in fact "Area 1"
- the real "Area 2" is the place between the blue and yellow doors

Painter said:

Couldn't the OL just respawn the demon into Area 3 ?
The rules do not say exactly how he is respawned when killed, and Area 3 has no exit for a big creature

You could respawn it, I guess, in Area 3, but why would you? If you are the OL, why would you want to help the heroes cross the rift in the only means available to them? Besides, if you dropped a block near the doors to Area 6, then they couldn't get the demon to where they needed it go to go ever. The other problem is that you could just about block the Demon without even thinking about it by using Crushing Blocks, which is what almost happened in my game as OL, in which I house-ruled (in my head) that I couldn't block the demon because it would be a pretty cheezy victory.

Also, the Area 2 text doesn't really make perfect sense as the Area between the doors because it refers to multiple pits, and there's only 1. I agree you could just use it that way. The flavor text works for that Area, but the multiple-pit reference could then be "interpreted" to apply to the single pit. Any thoughts on the lack of text for the starting area and the unusually close glyph placement (the starting glyph being five spaces away from another unactivated glyph)?

On Siege of Tamalir, I suppose you could make-up text for the first room, remove the weird extra glyph and then designate all rune doors as non-rune doors.

On The Good, The Bad and The Ogre: I'm curious if anyone's tried that or if FFG playtested it. It's got a pretty radical twist, is why I'm wondering. Couldn't it lead to player elimination fairly easily (the Ogre)?

Painter said:

Those are not Rune-locked doors, hence, no runekeys. The symbols for doors are line segments with a square on each end. Line segements with triangles, not squares, on each end designate the end/beginning of areas, not doors. This is done because in the compendium, the different areas are not different shades as in the rulebook scenarios. The different color area dividers just show you all the dividers of the same color end/begin the same area.

Man, I read these pages for weeks now since this thread has been created, and I fear the day of tomorrow, when I have the compendium, shaking with my pen in my hand while about to put a mark on every errors you pinpointed... that's terrible.

bitva said:

Hmm. Well, that's good to hear. The fact that they are in rune-door colors confused me and my friends. Thanks for the heads-up.

Do you think it would be possible to simply wait to purchase this until after it has been revised?

joshuapavon said:

It's a gamble because there's no reason to think there will be a revised edition. If FFG didn't care about doing it right the first time, they sure aren't spending resources or time to do it again. If there was an announcement that a revised printing will be done, I'd definitely wait. Otherwise, if you must have it, wait to find it at half price, as only about half the scenarios have non-fatal errors.

Painter said:

It confused me too, but I realized that it was impossible, and that if all the area dividers were white, it would have been a nightmare to figure the map out. There really should have been a note about that in the scenario.

Exarkfr said:

This is absolutely correct. The real area 2 is unlabeled in the compendium, but if you read the descriptions, they describe exactly what you're saying here. Area 1's description applies to the area incorrectly labeled "area 2" (the area with kobolds), area 2's description applies to the unlabeled area between the blue and yellow area dividers (the area with shades). It is completely expected that the area labeled "area 1" is actually the start area because in this scenario, the second half also has a start area (I know some of the compendium scenarioes do not). The reason why area two refers to falling into two-space PITS, and not PIT, is simply because it was copy and pasted from the area 1 description, typical FFG editing error.

bitva said:

I don't have the quest compendium, but that's definitely NOT consistent with what those symbols mean in the Road to Legend or Tomb of Ice expansions. Doors with rectangular endcaps are doors that are not area boundaries; doors with triangular endcaps are area boundaries, but they are still doors. The clearest labeling is on page 32 of the RtL rules pdf, which shows a "Red Rune-locked Door Also Marking an Area Division" and a "Red Rune-locked Door Not Marking an Area Division", though the map legends in both rulebooks also clearly label both encaps as "doors".

Maybe they redefined the symbols in the Quest Compendium, though that would really be incredibly stupid. Or maybe it defines special new symbols that sound like the door symbols from your descriptions but actually look different (though apparently not different enough to avoid confusion). But in RtL and ToI, a line segment with triangular endcaps is definitely a door.

It does say in the RtL map-reading section that colored lines with arrows are in fact doors, doors that mark new areas. It's confusing to delineate new areas in the Compendium that way. My group got ready to play Siege of Tamalir, and I even looked up the symbols, and it said they were doors.

In By a Brother Betrayed, they use the same door or colored area dividers, but they are clearly doors, and there are rune keys for them. In Claustrophobia, the same symbol is used for a blue rune door, and it explicitly refers to it as a door in the OL text. Same goes for the blue rune door in Demonic Possession. Well, I'm officially confused again as to the meaning of this symbol.

Antistone said:

This does not contradict what I said. It looks like it, because I didn't type the word "necessarily". In other words, in the quest compendium, and especially Siege of Tamilir, line segments with triangles at the ends do not necessarily denote doors. The blue and yellow ones one the first make DO, they're just not Rune Doors. However, this same symbol appears in the outdoor area of the second map, wherer clearly, there would be no door, but the area must be separated somehow, and that's how they did it. You'll notice that in this case, it's a yellow symbol, although again, you clearly don't need a runekey as there is no door outside.

bitva said:

Again, I don't have the Quest Compendium, but if you're arguing that the exact same symbol sometimes means a rune door, sometimes means a normal door, and sometimes means an area division with no door at all, in direct contradiction to the supplied legend and with no provided hints for determining which use is intended in any given case, then "clearly" is the very last word I would use to describe your theory. That's the most absurd apology for blatant publisher screw-ups I've ever heard.

And for the record, yes , that does contradict what you said the first time, because you specifically said that symbol did not designate doors. The fact that you didn't add "necessarily, always and forever, in all possible circumstances and permutations, so say we all" doesn't mean that we're supposed to assume you meant "except when it does."

It would help if they did that consistently, then. For example, in A Broken Bridge, they divide areas WITHOUT DOORS via a BROKEN LINE, yet in Siege of Tamalir, they did it with rune-door dividers that are apparently not rune doors, and then in OTHER quests, used the same rune-door divider symbols to mean rune-doors with keys, and in other quests, they just used regular rune doors with keys to mean the same thing (rune doors with keys dividing an area).

Therefore:

Broken Line equals area division without door.

Rune-colored door with triangluar ends means either (a) new area with non-rune doors; or (b) new area with rune-locked doors;

Rune-colored door with square ends also means (b): new area with rune-locked doors.

Antistone said:

Well, you're just going to have to accept that necessarily was left out by accident. You state that you don't know what you're talking about in the first sentence, then go on to continue to talk. I'm not going to argue with if you don't have the compendium to see that what you're trying to say doesn't apply at all. There's a couple of errors on "Siege of Tamilir" that are not excusable. However, if you're an intelligent human being, you can figure it out and play it, the errors are not fatal.

Painter said:

You're right, and I looked through the compendium before to see if they consisently used triangle end doors to separate areas. They don't, as you noted. The reason for this is that there's no symbol legend or symbol key in the compendium. You have to rely the legend/key in each rulebook. Therefore, only scenarioes that make use of RtL or ToI will have areas divided by triangle end doors. Scenarioes that do not utilize either of those sets (i.e. scenarios that players who own neither expansion can play) divide ares with normal, square end doors (or dotted lines), becuase if they had triangle end doors, you wouldn't know what they mean since they're not in the legend of JitD, WoD, or AoD. All that inconsistency just so they could leave out two pages of symbology at the beginning of the book.

bitva said:

Agreed. Problem is that they use the triangle end doors in numerous scenarios that do not use RtL or ToI (for example, By a Brother Betrayed, Claustrophobia, Demonic Possession).

What are your thoughts on that weird glyph in Siege of Tamalir, the one right by the starting glyph?