I once ran a naked Patrol Leader with a Recon Bounty Hunter and Vader shuttle. It was terrible.

That is a sub-optimal list imho.Swap Vader for Fleet Officer and RecSpec for Captive. I won a 19 player SC with that.

If you did have those large ships wholly within range 2 of the Fleet Officer, then I'm impressed that you won.

If your going to swarm number of dice is relevant.

No, it isn't. Consider that Howlrunner and six other TIEs have 14 attack dice, and so does BBBBZ--but the two have very different offense. Counting attack dice is irrelevant; what matters is that the former gets seven shots at 2 Attack (six with Howlrunner's reroll), and the latter gets four shots with 3 Attack and one shot at 2 Attack.

The Howlrunner swarm actually has better offense against most matchups, and better defense against almost all matchups. What makes BBBBZ so dangerous is that it has nearly as much offense, and it gives up MOV much more slowly. If you compare to XXXZZZ, which picks up an extra attack die (16 instead of 15), you see that BBBBZ has more defense and more offense against many common archetypes. BBBBZ is typically a better list, but that's not the conclusion you come to if you look just at attack dice.

In order to understand a list's offense, you have to know how many attacks you get per round, with how many dice per attack, how they're likely to be modified, and how likely you are to be left unable to attack in a given turn. Counting up attack dice gives you only one of those. As a result it's always incomplete, and sometimes it's actively misleading. (Four Warthogs get 20 red dice per turn!)

***

To bring this back around to the thread topic, this is why naked Decimators aren't a common choice: adding a single upgrade for a handful of points does so much for your overall value, even if it doesn't change the number of green or red dice you roll. Isard boosts your defense substantially, and Rebel Captive messes with your opponent's target priority and maneuvering. Gunner makes a big difference in your offense, and Vader represents guaranteed damage. All of those boost your efficiency out of proportion to their cost, so it's hard not to run at least one of them if you can.

You could try my "Howl's Moving Castle" list:

Patrol Leader x2

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics

You get to focus and reroll with your decis, and if Howl dies, you could always go back to target locking.

I will play this at least once just because of it's name LOL!

You could try my "Howl's Moving Castle" list:

Patrol Leader x2

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics

You get to focus and reroll with your decis, and if Howl dies, you could always go back to target locking.

I do have 2 Decis.... I might have to try this.

You could also replace Howl's Swarm Tactics with a Tactical Jammer on each Decimator to make them moving asteroids so they wont shoot down Howl too early on.

I was under the impression that Tactical Jammer blocked shots not just obstructed them??

Tactical Jammer allows your large ship to obstruct shots.

Sensor Jammer allows you to turn an incoming hit into a focus.

The Jam action gives out two stress token to an enemy.

The Frequency Jammer lets you put additional stress on ships near the first one when using the Jam action.

And apple is the one you eat.

You could try my "Howl's Moving Castle" list:

Patrol Leader x2

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics

You get to focus and reroll with your decis, and if Howl dies, you could always go back to target locking.

I do have 2 Decis.... I might have to try this.

You could also replace Howl's Swarm Tactics with a Tactical Jammer on each Decimator to make them moving asteroids so they wont shoot down Howl too early on.

I was under the impression that Tactical Jammer blocked shots not just obstructed them??

A guide to jamming:

Tactical Jammer allows your large ship to obstruct shots.

Sensor Jammer allows you to turn an incoming hit into a focus.

The Jam action gives out two stress token to an enemy.

The Frequency Jammer lets you put additional stress on ships near the first one when using the Jam action.

That list will get wrecked by Interceptors and Dual IG-88s.

Cut a TIE for Gunner and Darth Vader on the Patrol Leader, then use the extra 4 points to upgrade the other TIEs to Obsidians so they can shoot before Vader's crits and move at the same time. This list was actually pretty good for me when I was trying it out, just not my style.

Edit: Just realized that someone had posted this exact list (PL w/ Vader Gunner & 4x Obsidians) in a post above mine.

That list will get wrecked by Interceptors and Dual IG-88s.

Cut a TIE for Gunner and Darth Vader on the Patrol Leader, then use the extra 4 points to upgrade the other TIEs to Obsidians so they can shoot before Vader's crits and move at the same time. This list was actually pretty good for me when I was trying it out, just not my style.

Edit: Just realized that someone had posted this exact list (PL w/ Vader Gunner & 4x Obsidians) in a post above mine.

Thief!!!

You COULD run the Patrol Leader and 5 x AP squad, or you could run similarly:

Howlrunner

4 x AP

Bounty Hunter

99 pts

And end up with more fire power and similar durability. You just swap the turret for an Auxiliary arc. I think I'd prefer to fly this list. A single action toting turret (no action or damage ramping) will struggle to put a dent in the arc Dodgers that you want the turret for in the first place!

You could try my "Howl's Moving Castle" list:

Patrol Leader x2

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics

You get to focus and reroll with your decis, and if Howl dies, you could always go back to target locking.

You can do two Patrol Leaders? Does that card count as a named hero?

Yes you can have 2 patrol leaders

No it is not considered a named pilot

Note that the card does not have the little dot in front of the name to denote a unique card

I once ran a naked Patrol Leader with a Recon Bounty Hunter and Vader shuttle. It was terrible.

That is a sub-optimal list imho.Swap Vader for Fleet Officer and RecSpec for Captive. I won a 19 player SC with that.

If you did have those large ships wholly within range 2 of the Fleet Officer, then I'm impressed that you won.

Not very hard to do, with a turreted ship and a Firespray.

And I did.

I once ran a naked Patrol Leader with a Recon Bounty Hunter and Vader shuttle. It was terrible.

That is a sub-optimal list imho.Swap Vader for Fleet Officer and RecSpec for Captive. I won a 19 player SC with that.

If you did have those large ships wholly within range 2 of the Fleet Officer, then I'm impressed that you won.

Not very hard to do, with a turreted ship and a Firespray.

And I did.

You could try my "Howl's Moving Castle" list:

Patrol Leader x2

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics

You get to focus and reroll with your decis, and if Howl dies, you could always go back to target locking.

That's crazy. I bet people see red fighting two Decimators plus Howlrunner.

I am throwing around this list in my head:

Patrol Leader (40)

Academy Pilot (12) X 5

just wondering if anyone has tried a similar list and how it worked for them.

I call this list "Skinny Dipping in Space." I think it's a solid list, but it can break down very fast.

About to try a very un-naked Decimator list due to only having 2 TIE Bombers. I originally wanted to run 3-4 of the 16 point Bombers.

2 (PS4) Gamma Squadron Pilots

1 (PS8) Rear Admiral Chiraneau: Tactical Jammer/Dauntless/Darth Vade/Gunner/Mara Jade/Proton Torpedoes

I once ran a naked Patrol Leader with a Recon Bounty Hunter and Vader shuttle. It was terrible.

That is a sub-optimal list imho.Swap Vader for Fleet Officer and RecSpec for Captive. I won a 19 player SC with that.

If you did have those large ships wholly within range 2 of the Fleet Officer, then I'm impressed that you won.

Not very hard to do, with a turreted ship and a Firespray.

And I did.

Not very hard to do? In practice it means range 1 from Officer to use her ability. I think it's 3 points wasted, but maybe I'm wrong.

With respect, I'd say you're wrong.

Because:

It is range 1-2 and the Omicron moves first so it can always move up, or slow down!