I've written countless lists, fantasied about countless lists, but none of them have ever had the Tie Defender or the Tie Bomber. They just seem pointless and too expensive for what they are, am I wrong? I own a Defender, but never used it and I don't currently own a Bomber, but plan on doing (Collection syndrome).
I just want your thoughts really.....
Question: Certain Ties, do they have a use?
My local group has had an imperial player do really well with a 2 Defender build for awhile now. Placed 2nd or 3rd recently (out of 16) and was just out of the top 4 in another tourney too.
There's plenty of talk about the shortcomings of the TIE Defender, specifically, and the inefficiency of ordnance (which greatly effects TIE bombers). Basically, both need a bit of help, but that doesn't mean they aren't workable. However, you do have to put more effort and consideration into getting good value out of these ships, and even then, there will be a few lists that simply 'hard-counter' you, so you won't be able to win all of your matches all the time. Although, the same might be said of all lists, I suppose (perhaps to varying degrees).
If you only have one of each, then I would suggest running named pilots. Vessery or Brath can work well with or without a HLC, and Jonus buffs secondary weapons (whether cannons, missiles, torpedoes or whatever). So there is some synergy there.
I am a big fan of the defender, personally. I just last night won a 10 person tournament 3-0 without losing a ship flying my pet list, which is a Defender + Firespray list. They're not for everyone, and you have to do some work flying them carefully to get the hang of them, but I find them very rewarding now that I've gotten good at flying them.
My Vessery + Kenkirk list won me 3rd out of 25 in our store championship. Lots of threads have been going up about the Defender recently; you can make it work.
It's nice to hear that the Defender can work, as it means I haven't wasted money. Being a collector, it was always going to be purchased, but what about the Bomber? Everyone has made a great case for the Defender, but so far, I have heard little defending the Bomber. Can it work?
It's nice to hear that the Defender can work, as it means I haven't wasted money. Being a collector, it was always going to be purchased, but what about the Bomber? Everyone has made a great case for the Defender, but so far, I have heard little defending the Bomber. Can it work?
Regardless, you'd have your money back on the cards that come with the Defender I think; Predator is a hell of a card. I haven't played with bombers much, but I've seen people talk about their success with them often enough to have a general understanding. Usually they either need to be in a support role (like Captain Jonus with two HLC Defenders) or to have 2-3 of them with proximity mine. The idea is you swarm them to some degree and use their fat bodies and deadly bomb to swing things in your favor when their 2 attack don't quite cut it. Look around on the forums and you'll see a few threads about good bomber lists.
Soontir (ptl, royal guard tie, stealth, thrusters)
Delta Defender (flechette cannon) x 2
[99] up to 100 if you prefer shields on fell
haven't used the bomber enough, sadly. If it helps, their calculated cost per stats are actually quite solid its just that ordinance is absolute garbage. They may have promise with proximity mines.
Appropriately, I have used both defenders and the bomber in an epic game. They were half my 200 points for a team epic (naked jonus and two PS 3 defenders with HLC) and they did basically all the work.
Edited by ficklegreendice
The link above is my go to list, I've gotten 2nd and third at a couple of large tournaments with this list. It is not as consistent and more difficult to fly than Fat Han, but I've had games where I've beaten dual YT builds, Super Dash, and Fat Han w/Tala's.
Edited by toxiczammyuse bombers as an alt swarm, 6 hull is good and they good with vessery, and as bombers lol prox mines os seismics are fun
Bombers are decent dogfighters, cheap and tough as old boots, and Seismics/Proton Bombs and Proximity Mines can be a lot of fun with them. They make great wingmen for Vessery as well. Overloading them with ordnance is generally a bad idea though.
Defenders are expensive to field and tricky to master, but very rewarding to fly when you know what you're doing. Vessery is an amazing pilot, but you need to build the list around him. Ion cannon Defenders can literally ruin almost any other ship in a joust.
The TIE Bomber was one of my favorite ships from the original films, always bugs me that I really haven't given them a shake yet due to all the gloom n' doom surrounding them.
But that changes!
I've decided I'll pick up a second bomber and run them as part of a mini-Swarm:
"Howlrunner"
Squad Leader
Experimental Interface
Scimitar Squadron Pilot
Assault Missile
Proximity Mine
Scimitar Squadron Pilot
Homing Missile
Proximity Mine
Black Squadron Pilot
Wingman
Obsidian Squadron Pilot
Split my ordinance between something to help soften swarms and something to help soften high-agility targets. Howlrunner does her usual buffing, Squad Leader lets her pass a late round TL to the Bombers to combine their missile with a focus OR drop a late round proximity mine (possibly right on someone's head). Experimental Interface means she doesn't have to sacrifice evading or focusing to help her squadmates, Black Squad guy helps keep her stress down (or the Bombers, due to their mediocre dials), Obsidian is there to be an extra body.
And, as excited as I am to finally come up with a list with bombers that I actually want to fly, I can already see the ever popular Soontir Fel eating them for breakfast. It'd really be down to the bombers to line him up with the homing missile, catch him with Assault Missile splash damage, and/or catch him with a proxy mine... none of which is easy.
Only other idea I've had would be to run Jonus with Rhymer and a Lambda, and try to crush the enemy with an early modified volley of Clusters and Manglers. Or Jonus with a trio of Mangler equipped Lambdas, for the the greatest of lulz.
Honestly, I think you should drop the missiles altogether. They are not that great at the moment. Just free up some points to get another academy TIE.
Honestly, I think you should drop the missiles altogether. They are not that great at the moment. Just free up some points to get another academy TIE.
Of course then I'll also need to buy another TIE Fighter, on top of another Bomber.
Still, a bit swarmier then. With less pressing need for constant double actions, could even then drop the Wingman + Black Squadron Pilot and have a trio of Obsidians.
Sigh, I'm an X-Wing addict... I'll probably end up trying both the extra ship and the missile approach. My poor wallet, we hardly knew ye.
I have considered running a swarm of stock bombers with Howlrunner, just to try something different.
Edited by toxiczammyI have considered running a swarm of stock bombers with Howlrunner, just to try something different.
Yeah, its known as a 'fat swarm' or something along those lines. Its not bad. Trouble will be keeping howlrunner alive as she is the most obvious first target. But the bombers are hard to kill, so that's a plus.
I have considered running a swarm of stock bombers with Howlrunner, just to try something different.
Yeah, its known as a 'fat swarm' or something along those lines. Its not bad. Trouble will be keeping howlrunner alive as she is the most obvious first target. But the bombers are hard to kill, so that's a plus.
Then, run a black squadron pilot in there with draw their fire? The TIE swarm list that I normally use has two of those, and I've been able to keep Howl alive for a while.
Agreed. Bombers are simple, tough fighters; yes, only 2 attack and 2 agility, but 6 hull makes them tough as old boots, they can target lock if wanted and their dial isn't that bad.
Also, they have the speed 1 straights and banks - something you often miss with fighters and interceptors, where you're wishing you could roll slowly into a fight...
Agreed. Bombers are simple, tough fighters; yes, only 2 attack and 2 agility, but 6 hull makes them tough as old boots, they can target lock if wanted and their dial isn't that bad.
Also, they have the speed 1 straights and banks - something you often miss with fighters and interceptors, where you're wishing you could roll slowly into a fight...
well one trick you can try when running a swarm of TIE fighters is the 1 hard turn. Its something that you can only use when A) your opponent is set up to joust with you and B) you are fairly certain that most of your ships and your opponent's ships are going to bump into that TIE, causing a big traffic jam. Its effective because TIE swarms don't mind trading ships via a slew of Range 1 shots from both sides. Obviously the turned ship is unlikely to get any shots, but a damaged TIE is a good choice for this role because it will have an action it can use defensively and is taking less shots. Plus next turn, it doesn't have to k-turn to face the enemy (who are likely k-turning) and your ship will probably get an action again.
Edited by blade_mercurialI've had pretty good success with 4 Tie Bombers. I went undefeated in my SC until the Final Four. 3 generic Phantoms got me hard. Still, 4 Tie Bombers is a beast unto itself. If you are thinking about adding 1 to a list, it can be tougher.
Everyone says ordnance sucks, but if you pick specific ordnance, you are do alright. Concussion Missiles shot with a Focus gives you a 94% chance of getting 3 hits. Homing Missiles are one more point and let you keep the TL for modifying your dice. That's one that everyone forgets and is only a single point more. Cluster Missiles are nasty vs. low agility ships. That includes Decimators, Falcons, B-wings, and Y-wings. Ion Pulse Missiles keep the TL, as well. They can put a large ship somewhere it doesn't want to be.
The best combo for me that I've found is one Concussion (or Homing) Missile and another Cluster Missile. If you can get the TL, you can fire either, depending on the target.
Part of the problem with the low PS Bomber is that it has a harder time getting a Target Lock. One trick is to get just outside of firing range, then zoom in close. You shouldn't die in the first round unless you have their entire list firing at your one Bomber. You get a TL then. Don't use it. Use your 5 K-turn to get behind them. You are stressed, but you have them TL'ed. If you pair them with someone with Squad Leader, you can give them one of their actions. I've used Darth Vader w/ Concussion and a cheap Tie Bomber with the same together. They both flank and pick the same target. Vader doesn't get the 2nd action as he passes it to the Bomber, but two of them together creates a great alpha strike.
Oh, that leads to another thought. Ordnance is a nasty "alpha strike"...or early attack. It works best if you have at least 2 ships with ordnance that are effective. You can really cripple or kill some standard fighters depending on the dice. If you go with two, you can take Jonus as the 2nd. That makes 2 of the other attack dice re-roll, which is great. The real problem with ordnance is that you don't get a chance to modify the dice. Jonus fixes that.
Everyone will tell you that ordnance sucks, but if you find the right combo for it, you should do amazing with it. Personally, I look at Chiraneau. He gets to turn 1 eyeball into a crit. If he uses a Concussion Missile, the chance of him doing a lot of damage are pretty high. One eyeball turns to a crit and a blank turns into a hit. He doesn't even need a re-roll to make use of a lot of that damage. Just make sure to fire at R2. Also, use a Cluster Missile with him. He rolls 2 x 3 dice, but each time an eyeball can be turned into a crit. Use that against another large ship and you can seriously hurt them.