Honestly, I do believe FFG would be best served by producing an expansion of just the equipment reference cards. If anyone wants to pinpoint a contention of Tannhauser naysayers, this is the one.

Unfortunately, this is not a great solution, even though I personally would love it. I feel, a lot of current owners might cry foul that it was not included in the base game. Of course, hindsight is 20/20.

I think a good general upgrade pack to be: Additional Trooper figs and cards, equipment reference cards for base game and expansions, and new tokens (beyond those that will appear in Daedalus). This way the original is still playable, but you get a satisfying amount of new things if you buy the expansion.

I don't own Tannhauser, but I've been interested in it for a while. One of the biggest reasons why I haven't picked it up yet is the lack of maps. To me, more maps = more variety = more playability.

This thread, and threads like it are very informative so I hope more people post their thoughts about the upcoming reworking of the rules.

That said, to add my own suggestion, I would love to see more maps released for the game. They don't even need to come in bigger expansions. Plenty of other games, like Power Grid, have released just new map expansions. The simple act of adding a new double-sided map extends the life of the game tremendously and would entice "on the fence" players like myself to give Tannhauser a try.

Plageman said:

True.

jabrams007 said:

The next expansion, Daedalus, is a double sided map pack, problem solved!

Let's hope this is a sign that FFG is addressing realistic expectations.

Also, I must add that I think the current grenade rules are one of the more solid concepts in Tannhauser.

No, it's not realistic that you can't throw it into occupied square, true.

You can, however, throw it in front of, or behind a target, and it effects multiple targets, even on other paths. There needs to be some defensive strategy to counter grenades, even if it's unrealistic, in my opinion.

In my experience, grenades are one of the trickiest weapons and I like the way they are handled.

supervike said:

I just started playing the game a few days ago so excuse me if i dont know what i am talking about. But, it seems that plot is a bit thin on the ground... i know that it will be awesome once i get to creating scenarios, but it would be nice to have a book of connected scenarios that outline a main plot and compose a line that utilizes all the objectives so that a first game runs through a main story line. Or does this exist already online somewhere and i havent seen it perhaps????

DoctorDR said:

A little research basically just answered my own question but it would be nice to get some more involved scenarios in the box...

I'd like those silly ranks to be fixed. Giving a bonus to deployment? Pfft. But, we do have tokens of the month to replace them.

Now, a bonus to initiative? That'd be interesting.

madslaust said:

That would be cool.

Mentioned previously was a over watch action. That would be neat. As an action set a character to over watch, when an enemy unit crosses his path he can fire with his lowest ratings.

The Sundance Kid said:

I agree that I'm not a fan of the deployment bonus as its too much of a one shot deal that I find contributes little the the overall game. Initiative bonuses would be a better deal.

I like the idea of an "over watch" action. I just played my first couple of games of Space Hulk and I thought that action worked very well and could transfer to this game easily. On his first time playing, a friend of mine was baffled by how my Reich soldiers could run into a room, slash a Union guys throat, and jump out of the room without anyone else seeing/acting/firing a shot. Over watch would definitely curb that kind of rampant hit and run. Of course that sounds like it might favor the Union side more.

One thing I'd like to see on the maps is connectors to each circle that indicates how one can move along paths. I realize that some people have but together some nifty player aids but it'd be easier to have info on the actual map.

Would this be the same space monkey Mafia from the Arcane Legions forum?

I just got Space Hulk as well.

it is a blast.

spacemonkeymafia said:

I do see how over watch can be a bit lop sided in favor of the union

to balance this

Only give Brown the super heavey I can kill on 10s ability.

Remove that from MacNeal and thealpha trooper.

2nd use it as a stand alone action, a unit can not fire and go on over watch, kind of symbolizes a unit off guard re-loading his gun.

The Sundance Kid said:

I am the same!

As for the overwatch, I would not like remove standard equipment from the favored side. I'd rather see overwatch fit into the Tannhauser mechanics. Maybe limiting the ability to activate it as you say can balance the ability. One could make it a token like "Go, go, go!" or "Keep Moving!" only more generic so that it is accessible to multiple factions.

spacemonkeymafia said:

There wouldn't be any removal of equipment. I suggested a updated rules for the smaller flash machine guns.

As it stands they are a bit too powerful with the dumb luck factor. An additional wound I could see, but an automatic kill is a bitt too much.

Using it as an action put a guy to over watch "cover me" type deal would be a good concept.

I could see reasons for and against of using the lowest combat value on a over watch attack.

For: The character is cought off guard

Against: The character is alert when put onto over watch.

over watch could also bring all new abilities for new squads.

Regarding the 2 issues being discussed... I for one like the fact that combat is deadly in this game. It keeps it quick and I feel is justified.

Imagine entering (having your figure move onto a new path) a 15 foot hallway where you know there is a person with a machine gun (an opposing figure) has been waiting and not taking any action. You have no body armor. You move straight at them, stop 5 feet away and shoot them with your pistol. They are wounded. This is how Tannhauser currently works.

Imagine if you the opposing figure was allowed to place an "overwatch" token next to it if it hadn't used an action that turn. This would change the game entirely. The moment an enemy entered your LOS you could shoot.

The autokill is good because these are not power armor troops. They are in regular uniforms...

The overwatch idea could work great, but it would change the game a lot (I feel for the better) and would need playtesting. Perhaps only allow a half move if you want to go into overwatch might help balance.

While not opposed to the idea of 'Overwatch' in principle. I do believe that in the case of tannhauser it may lead to 'turtling'

In my view overwatch works best in games with assymetric forces - examples include 'Space Hulk' and 'Tide of Iron'

I also have Deja Vu on this - did I discuss this with someone at the 'Tannbunker'?

Nhoj

Here's a thought - what if spending a VP made a figure 'counterattack ready'

What I'm thinking is that if such a figure were attacked then a counterattack roll would be simultaneous. At full value. If the figure wished to retain the 'counter' in order to use it against subsequent attacks then the c-attack would be at lowest printed combat value. This would allow some defence but at the cost of a precious VP.

I'm thinking on my feet here but such a tactic might prevent the scenario that the Doc pointed out - but still with some risk to any characters involved in either the attacking or defending side.

Thoughts?

Nhoj

Very true on the "turtle" aspect.

There is already an element with that in our games. Over watch option could only increase that.

Maybe as a specific ability for a character?

Hey Sundance - did you see my follow up post?

Regards

Nhoj

Nhoj said:

Would you spend the VP when you were going to be attacked? or is it a "gamble"

A gamble methinks. A character would place a 'Counterattack Ready' counter instead of taking an action on his own phase

I think I may playtest this idea as a solitaire project over the weekend sometime

Nhoj

I really like the gamble of spending the VP to go into an overwatch mode. It makes its use finite and one can't just turtle the whole game. Players would have to make strategic decisions on when to use it to prevent hit and run assassin attacks. One difference is in Space Hulk there is facing, while not in this game. I'm not sure if that will make it overly powerful but spending the VP to go into that mode helps to keep it balanced at least.

Are we talking true Overwatch mode where every step is a potential attack? I would think one attack per character turn is a more balanced mechanic. If it is every step then the lowest value will be a necessity and some of the line of sight rules might need a tweak- I can't imagine being able to overwatch from the back and fire through all your comrades... but maybe that is why it is from the lowest attack value then.

How about spending 1 VP for a Charakter who hasn´t attacked this turn to attack an enemy entering his path with his lowest combat-scores or 2 VPs for someone, who has attacked this turn? Would make things a lot easier instead of a special counter.

I was thinking (and maybe didn't explain fully) that a character could use their action to put down the 'ready' token and then got to use their action later. I did not intend for it to be Space Hulk style Overwatch. I can see that as being unbalancing.

This should probably be a bonus token.

So Doc, would this token come from your character and take up an item slot? That's what I was thinking initially but maybe that is too limiting and selective as you don't want all your heroes to get stuck with only 3 other slots open. I guess it doesn't have to be though, it could just be a generic token that is placed on the board (one of the extra tokens with that characters pic on it would work). Then you remove it when you issue your attack or start that characters next turn. Camping/turtling might still be an issue. Also, I haven't played with the Russians yet, would this cause any balance problems when using them?

Some interesting discussion here. My own idea is only slightly from the Docs.

'Counterattack ready'

"Any character armed with a weapon which is capable of a counter attack may spend 1 VP as his/her action phase to become conterattack ready.

Any such character when attacked may launch a simultaneous attack against the attacker. If the attacker does not attack the counter does not happen (both parties taken by surprise?)

In the event of a counter attack, under THIS rule, the defender may elect to use current combat value (and lose the ability) or lowest printed value, and retain the ability"

This rule should prevent turtling for two reasons

. VP is required, these are finite

. Attacker does not need to attack and can therefore still advance

No new counter would be necessary for this option - I will be using a small red bead to designate this state in my upcoming playtest

Regards All

Nhoj