kroen said:

BGtoW Herald should add "some" difficulty .

On a side note, I love playing 4 investigators in solo games. Micromanaging FTW ! At least when one investigator is LiTaS or even delayed, you still have things to do during turns, instead of just standing said investigator up and drawing an encounter.

I've tried two "Single Player, Single Investigator" games. Both with random Investigators and random AO's using just the base set.

Kate Vs. Hastur & Sister Mary Vs. Cthulhu.

It wasn't pretty.

Definitely will try the alternate Mythos phase variant (probably with alternate Upkeep, too). Thanks for the good suggestions!

SJBenoist said:

Two questions and a comment

1) Alternate Upkeep: Lots of folks want to limit the Upkeep too. We don't. If you played a game with two Kates, each would have an upkeep? Maybe I'm missing something or are you just wanting to make the game harder?

2) Alternate Mythos variant: You mean skip every other Mythos? That has two issues with it that I've read? Since you know whether there will be a Mythos you can choose to go into a dangerous gate location with absolute certainty that a gate will will not be summoned by the Mythos. And as alluded to earlier in the thread you can choose to take a side trip with the absolute certainty that a Mythos will not come and interfere with you by bringing another gate or putting monsters in your way or monsters moving in your way. Certainly that makes the game easier. That's why I use a die roll to determine the Mythos. In addition, I don't want to be bothered with keeping track of whether its off Mythos or on Mythos.

Whatever you do, please report back.

BTW, On BGG there's a guy who's won several single player games using the easier rules from Black Goat as well as the Black Goat Mythos cards and he gives you a blow by blow description.

Ugh. **** BGotW. I lost. Twice. So I decided to go back to micromanaging, played with 3 investigators and lost once with the blessing condition and won once with the clue condition, but in the final battle. This is an insane herald. 2 monsters per turn+hexagon monsters can't be pulled through gates+corruption on every hexagon defeated+doom token per gate surge. Insane.

Btw I just realized something: Being cursed while Tsathoggua is the ancinet one=gg. I'm yet to have KH and I can't imagine Rex surviving a game against him, unless Daisy searches the bless spell for him.

OK, I tried random Investigator (Gloria) & random AO (Shub), Base set only.

Rolled each Mythos Phase to see if it occurs (1-3 Yes, 4-6 No). Literally skipped the phase if No (Rumors effects). Used regular Upkeep.

Tough to judge on one play, but it finished like so:

5 Open Gates

3 Sealed Gates

TL 9

Lost Battle with AO

The game saw three trips to St. Mary's (I kept getting blocked in by powerful monsters). Play time more than doubled (took about 2 Hours), as more thought was required for every turn. Overall, a good experience

I may try again later today.

kroen said:

Haha, BGotW is the hardest Herald, but I like it! Of course, I play 4 investigators. But still win-% is 50 after 12 games with it, using normal difficulty. 6-4-2 to be exact.

How do you figure Cursed + Tsathoggua = gg? You can still roll to remove the Curse (well, not with Rexy-boy). Tsat has looooong doom track, there's plenty of time to get rid of it. Once I managed to seal a gate vs Yog Sothoth while Cursed (rolling 3 dice, needed 2 6s ).

SJBenoist said:

We too entirely skip the Mythos. If you are going to play the rumors like there are multiple investigators then you get to skip their Mtyhos effects too.

Gloria and Shub. Good test : a weak to average investigator (IMO) and an average to strong GOO (actually my nemisis). It's still like a two investigator game, so I'd expect to be unable to seal--you got halfway there!

Would you use regular Upkeep in the future?

Play time more than doubled? Darrell and Gloria slow down our games a lot--having to read two cards. Shub monsters are never pushovers.

Tell me what you think about this solo variant:

I play 1 investigator that counts as 5 investigators, but because I'm playing with 2 board expansions the 5 counts as 4, meaning: I draw a mythos card every 5 turns; the monster/outskirts/gate limit is the limit for 4 investigators; I have only one upkeep per 5 turns; abilities that can only be used once per turn (such as Loe's Leadership ability) can only be used once per 5 turns; rumors always refer to 1 investigator (if I would refer them to 4 most would be impossible to complete even with the extra turns I have); in the final battle, I count as one investigator, meaning 1 success per doom token and one attack per turn.

Haven't tested it yet. Thoughs?

kroen said:

Waaay too easy. Once every four turns. Maybe. I would aim for once every three turns though other wise you're just softening the game up for easy wins.

Kroen wrote: I play 1 investigator that counts as 5 investigators, but because I'm playing with 2 board expansions the 5 counts as 4, meaning: I draw a mythos card every 5 turns; the monster/outskirts/gate limit is the limit for 4 investigators; I have only one upkeep per 5 turns; abilities that can only be used once per turn (such as Loe's Leadership ability) can only be used once per 5 turns; ...

This highlights the problem with using one character multiple times. What you'll find out quickly is that the abilities of investigators really are significantly better or worse. Leo, for example is above average. But if you play it your way, it will be like playing five characters, four without any special ability at all.

Kroen wrote: rumors always refer to 1 investigator (if I would refer them to 4 most would be impossible to complete even with the extra turns I have);

Because you have only one upkeep, this might be true. When I've done it. (usually three investigators treated as four), I give them all an upkeep. Trying to keep it as close to the original as possible. So you've changed one rule (no upkeep), you'll need to adjust in other places. There may even be more because of unintended consequences.

On the other hand, investigators without upkeep demands, like Luke, Daisy and many others will unscathed and will benefit from your rumor rule. BTW, when will be bring players Lost in Time and Space back, since they return on Upkeep? Upkeep spells will be next to worthless as wiill exhaust weapons.

I think you are thinking of the rumors that add 3 of something per Mythos. They'd start with 12. Some will be easy and some would be hard depending on your investigator. For example, Nightmare pool (sanity) would easily be passed with an investigator with 7 sanity in three investigator turns and $4 but Riots (stamina) might be impossible under normal circumstances. Mistrust (exchange items for clues), is always difficult. Your rules would make them too easy, though, IMO.

Kroen wrote: in the final battle, I count as one investigator, meaning 1 success per doom token and one attack per turn. Haven't tested it yet. Thoughs?

I don't think it will be as easy as Avi thinks. But I don't think it will be very fun either. Sealing the first few gates will be fairly easy because you'll be able to gather essentially all the clue tokens, but there will be few monsters to fight and few other places to get clues. They'll be lots of down time--when you have not very much to do. You'll probably maximize the friendly locations, that reap clues and other goodies.

In short, every choice will be five times more important than in a regular game. So if you make bad choices or a string of bad luck, you'll bet in trouble quicker and if you make good choices you'll get more stuff and the game will be easier. A lot of the difficulty will be based on your invesitgatgor choice.

I tried a game with Amanda (most average?) the other day treating her as three investigators. It was boring and I stopped playing. I've played many games with three players, treating them as four and its always worked well. (I randomize the Mtyhos which you don't like, you said.)

Doube post, please ignore.

What do you mean playing 3 investigators and treating them as 4? and what this about randomizing the mythos?

kroen said:

We often play with three investigators but ignore the Mythos using a 4 sided die on a 1. Over the game, then, the mythos comes, on the average, 3 out of 4 times, so its like playing a 4 investigator game with 3 investigators. As usual, all other aspects of the game (rumors, closing victory and monster limits) are treated as if 4 investigators were actually playing.

I suggested randomizing the Mythos before to you and you said you said didn't like to do that. But if I were to play a single investigator game, rather than have a Mythos every 3rd or 4th turn, I'd roll a die and only have a mythos, on the averge, that same amount. For example, to play a single investigator as three investigators, I'd roll a die and only have a Mythos on a 1 or 2. As I said, I only tried it once, with Amanda, however and there was a lot of down time so I didn't finish the game.

On three occassions I played 2 investigators and only had a Mythos on a 1,2,3 (half the time). We lost twice and won one. So that worked.

Can't you just skip every 4th mythos or something?

I think I'll just stick with the old fashioned way of playing 3 investigators which, when playing two board expansions count as 2. Still though, it'll be hard for 3 investigators to handle 3 boards.

kroen said:

Sure. Old fashioned way? Wheneven a person plays more than one investigator, he's playing a house rule.

Playing more than one investigator is always going to be easier than having the same number of players each playing one investigator. Mostly because you are going to have a unified plan that all one of you agree on. Same is true for playing one investigator three or so turns in a row by whatever method. Even more so, because if you happen to have a superior investigator, his superiority will shine through even more brightly.

Randomization of the mythos takes away from the predictibility and therefore can make the game more like the old fashioned way.

In addition, a large player game is much different than a small player game. Three or fewer investigators will more often than not end in a final combat. The fewer the investigators, the more likely it happens and the better chance there is of winning that combat.

A large investigator game is more likely to end in a sealed gate victory because if it goes to a final battle, the larger number of investigators decreases the chances of a final battle victory. And its just easier to gather the requisite clues and more through the Other worlds. In addition, the tasks of the game can be more efficiently divided.

So, in short, you get to decide which type of "old fashioned" game you want. It's all for the fun anyway.

Peronally I would have played 4-5 investigators but that's just too much micro managing. 3 different investigators is the highest I'm willing to go.

mageith said:

I understand your point in having a unified plan, but the above statement is kind of a stretch. One person playing solo running a 4-investigator team is not necessarily getting an advantage. What you miss out on with fewer players is the ability to catch stuff and remind each other of risks and plans.

I suffer from forgetting slider movements to accommodate my plans. If you were playing with more people, your "unified plan" wouldn't be kept secret, so there's no real benefit to doing it alone without dissenting opinions.

Tibs said:

No stretch whatsoever. It is a houserule. All I'm saying is that there are no rules for players playing multiple investigators. The game is clearly designed for players and each player plays one investigator. Its not too tough to play with more than one investigator, pretty easy in fact, but its not the design of the game. The game is designed for 1-8 players. A solo game is, by definition, one player with one investigator against the game.

"Arkham Horror is a game for 1 to 8 players (3 to 5
recommended), playable in 2 to 4 hours."

"The players must work together as a team of investigators
to close all of the dimensional gates, seal them permanently,
or if that fails, defeat the Ancient One when it
awakens from its slumber."

"The first player shuffles the 16 investigator sheets. Then,
without looking, he randomly deals out one investigator
sheet in front of each player, including himself."

Of course one player with multiple investigators gets an advantage, or at least has an advantage. If he squanders his advantage by forgetting bookkeeping, well that works both ways. Forgetting some bookkeeping is advantageous (not to imply deliberate). I'm surprised you would even bother to argue otherwise.

From my experience with dozens of different players, the players very quickly identify with their investigator. What a single player might risk with one of his multiple investigators a single player with but one investigator would not risk. That's why there's really no penalty for being devoured. There doesn't have to be.

In otherwords, Arkham Horror is designed to be a personal experience not a game in the traditional sense.

Sez you :') but I sez NEY!

mageith said:

This pretty much hits the nail on the head, as a single person playing 4 investigators you are more likely to sacrifice one and let him "take one for the team" than an individual player with 1 character might. When you're one person playing 4 characters you lose a little bit of that self preservation instinct you would have if you were only playing 1.

That being said I've never actually played the game (plan to tonight or tomorrow night) so I don't know how much my opinion is worth.

I am interested in applying some custom rules right off the bat for my 1 investigator solo game. I want hidden gates until you go through per Richard Launius' house rules, and I am thinking about random mythos phases like mageith suggested.

Any other rules / variations suggestions would be appreciated. I plan to play all of my games random investigator / random Ancient Old One.

What's with all thi crazy talk , play both solo and in groups up to 4 and personally find the solo games more enjoyable at times. Never had a trouble with the group play but tend to play the more difficult games solo as some in the group do not like certain expansions, AOs or characters so sometimes look towards a relaxing game of solo AH to unwind. <RANT ON> And as for a solo player taking more than one character as a houserule there is nothing in the rules to indicate that rather it seems to indicate that a single player taking multiple charaters is encouraged and expected. And I have never sacrified a character for the good of the others and never felt compelled to either <RANT OFF>

Cheers

Spectre

I don't generally throw people under the bus so to speak, though if taking one for the team is needed, I'll make it happen. I'm happy to fodder people I don't like (hi Dexter, Jim, Amanda, Vincent, Avi ) for possibly mediocre rewards. Anything barring retiring to get rid of them .

Spectre2661 said:

Boy I'd wish you'd show me where in the rules one player taking more than one investigator is encouraged and expected? Neither is it prohibited. It's just not mentioned AFAIK.

Just to be clear, it's not a big deal. I play by myself all the time with four investigators. I too do not sacrifice investigators but I am willing to take more chances. Sometimes those chances payoff and sometimes they don't. I'm certainly more willing to maximize each character by altruistically trading with my other investigators. And none of my investigators take needless risks like they do when run by other less veteran players. I'd be fine with reporting a 1 player/4 investigator game in our stats files too.

Dam said:

Awww, you made an investigator of me, how cute ;')

Btw, Dam, I created a few custom components lately (a few of which you might actually like) i.e. The Darkness (an AO), and a few heralds that you have the right sets to play, The Arbiter of Reality, The Pied Piper, and The Lich King. They're all fairly tough :') I don't think you'd like going into final battle with any of them ;'D particularly The Arbiter (Heralds thread page 17) or The Darkness (AO thread page 22) (those were partially designed with you in mind).

The Piper's a fun and somewhat difficult herald, but it's not quite as soul crushing as the previous two. I'm particularly proud of The Arbiter (couple him with The Darkness if you're on crack).

**** it Dam, stop summoning me! You should know by now that when you say my name I appear (and apparently I've made an essentially off-topic post as a result) ::mumble grumble::

Just play the game will ya?!?!