Well, my Acolyte (Arbitrator, 3rd rank) got recently his both upper limbs amputated. I mean, clearly - no more arms for that guy.

As I hate rolling for new character as the rulebook suggests, I still cherish the thought of finding some bionic replacements for my limbs. Apart form usual bionic arm, I keep thinking about having some cool cannon instead of one hand...

But, I would need your ideas:

1) How to be really harmful to my enemies in a fight (without arms) if I'm no street fighter nor psyker?

2) Any ideas what to replace the arms with?

Thanks.

Not quite sure I get the "how do I become dangerous in combat if I'm not ..." question; ranged combatants have many excellent choices in DH and are at least as useful as either of the other two possibilities you mentioned.

That said, I would look into the price of getting a couple prosthetic arms, one - as you said - sans hand but sporting a Melta Gun or Bolt Gun in exchange. Better yet, if you can get the GM to okay it, have the arm designed so you can get attachments made, which you might swap out between battles and upgrade as possible. (for example, you might have one attachment which attacks as a Melta Gun, another as a Las Rifle, another as a Bolt Gun, then also have place to attatch laser sights, or other augmentations.) Should the GM be reluctant point out that this is really only a little more powerful than purchasing those same weapons and using them with two hands, plus hiding a Heavy Las Rifle Arm is going to be a bit difficult in many situations.

Really, it depends what facilities you have access to and how much money you have to spend on the replacements ... you may need to have only one arm for a time, until you can afford the second. Eventually you might also get the money and power to have a flesh grafted arm replace your lost one. (basically an arm transplant ... Eisenhorn does as much for his lost hand)

Also, if you explain to the GM that you really want to keep the character he may be more lenient in what he'll let you get away with than he would otherwise.

Jack of Tears said:

Nice ideas, there, thanks. However, making reaplaceable weapons on my bionic arm is a bit too overpowered to my view, I think. Plus, I'll need specially customised replaceable weapons, to link with my interface in my bionic arm. We'll see into that with my GM, though, I like the way it looks.

My first question was: how do I combat efficiently without hands?

How to do combat without having a hand?
Well...besides "kung-fu&kicks" you do not need a hand if one of your hands is replaced by a combat instrument. Imagine a chain knive attached to your wrist instead of a hand.

BUT if you can effort having hands...for emporers sake, HAVE THEM! "Not having hands" is a serious limitation. Think about yourself being the "last man standing" after a fight..how do you want to drag your cell mates into the transporter and drive them to a save place?

Trust me, the last thing you want to be is "handless".

Golden opportunity here. Get some bionic arms and then get the concealed weapon bionic upgrade from Inquisitors handbook (page. 138). Then you could have switchblade action guns or melee weapons incorporated into the arms! (how about two power blades springing into action from the palms of your hands? )

Sure, it's gonna cost you, but then again your Inquisitor might be a nice fellow, and if you can persuade him/her about the benefits of one of his/her agents having such concealed weapons then "the boss" might just pull through and getting it for you.

Varnias Tybalt said:

Sure, a very clever suggestion, but - I have recently failed miserably with one mission he gave us The result of loss of hands was the consequence of severe questioning I had undergone, after which I cracked. Sure, the Inquisitor charged us with another task, but I have serious doubts he'll approve additional expenses from the coffers of the =I=.

EDIT: BTW, are you sure that bionic implants are usable by non-Tech Priests?

egalor said:

Yes they are. Sure, there are some that are exclusive to techpriests (like Mechadendrites or Hermetich Infusion for example), but the concealed weapon bionic (and quite a few others) have a normal rarity rating instead of the "Tech-priests only" rarity.

Or did you mean the usage itself? Because you don't need tech-use or anything to use a bionic arm since it's hardwired to your nerves, it acts just like a normal arm. (as is the deployment of concealed weapons activated by thought impulses)

Good luck going undercover with a gun for a hand. It's also hard to do things that require two hands, like climbing or grappling somebody. Better to get a really vicious helper monkey instead. Or, better yet, just two plain bionic arms.

Varnias Tybalt said:

Thanks for the clarification, as I seem to have omitted the 'Tech Priest Only' rarity thing. I seemed to me from the start that Bionic Replacements are for everybody, but Implants are only for Tech Priests (as only they have the necessary built-in interface for that).

BTW, is there any express rule allowing me to install and use the implants, other than those specifed as for the Tech Priests only?

bogi_khaosa said:

Yeah, I'm that unlucky

I'd be tempted to pull a Zeph Mathuin on this- get standard bionic arms, but have (at least) one of the hands be a plug-and-play model, then get a large weapon built to be plugged into the same socket. Then get a large kitbag to carry it. Everyday usage, you've got hands, but when it's time for the gloves to come off (metaphorically speaking), you pull off a hand, and plug in say, an assault cannon...

It may be worth getting the 'conceal weapon' bionic for the other hand as well, with a melee weapon, or simply talk it over with your GM. I'd say a bionic hand is going to count as brass knuckles at the very least. And that's ignoring the possibility of adding shock generators and/or power fields, or even thinking about mono or lathe equivalents...

Though bionic limps are quite the eseasist and cheapest and most "accepted" ways of replacing, there are others if you are interested and willing to eehm.. step a bit over the "What-is-legal-and-morally-right" line or even step into full radicalism

first of all i do not know how radicaly inclined your charater is or even if he is at all but I am going to list some of the altenatives to simple bionoc replacements. Most of these will be extremly hard to find and give more than a few problems to use but the results (if nor the consequences) speaks for themselves. here are some examples:

1) The Psychic power Regenerate allows you to, well, regenarate lost limbs, granted it only works for the psyker himself but I bet there are rogue psykers out there that have learned to use their powers to "aid" others for a little help

2) I wouln't be surprised if there were some stable mutations that allow the bearer to regenerate lost limbs

3) One of the forbidden arts of dark technology is about fleshwork. For example combining human and xenos genetic material, the small matter of a lost arm of two dosen't sound that hard to fix when you can create entirely new creatures with a little help from the Logicians or the Dark Mechanicus

4) Dark Pacts comes with many benefits...

5) Don't even get me started on Halo Devices

Besides that many xenos species are way more adept than humans in replacing or even recreating lost body parts. Though many of these options (including them above) would mean that you before long have to roll up a new character anyway.

If your Inquisitor wanted to not reward you for losing lost arms he could just give you new normal arms. As I recall from the Last Chancers books you find that technology can grow back normal pure human appendages and organs (but not eyes apparently) though it costs a pretty penny. But if you do get the bionics, which would be the easiest way to get your arms back, concealed weapons bionic is the way to go. That or you could go and get Helot Augmentics. You'll get a new arm with a giant drill on it! Though mind you, the surgery is done without painkillers so be ready for some insanity points.

And if I was GMing I would say that you could have an arm gun but it would give you all the penalties for one arm in combat as well as the disadvantages of the concealed weapons bionic (a jam makes the whole arm inoperable) as well as makes you almost impossible to disguise.

Tetragon Tanebrae said:

Thanks for that! Thou speaketh heresy In my view, I don't think converting to the 'dark side' - not my style of play. Tech solutions appeal to me more.

Alasseo said:

Yeah, Zeph rules.

But -- what is the price for these toys you've mentioned, in your approximation at least? I have 70 thones per month minus accomodation and subsistence costs (depends on the world), so to purchase a standard bionic arm I would have to wait for more than a year... not a thing I could afford.

My one hope comes from my fellow Acolytes how could lend me these sums under reasonable interest. Heh heh, "interest"! That's what I call camaraderie in our company.

The other hope is - to loot some thrones during my adventures, but I doubt I would be able to loot much without arms

Hmm, having just looked it up, I'd say the Zeph Option would cost 24000, plus medicae costs, and ignoring the other arm. Perhaps not particularly feasible.

On the other hand, I'd say getting 'mono' arms (counting as mono-brass knuckles) would be around 1200 per, plus maybe 500 in medicae fees (for both arms). I admit, I'm kinda pulling this out of my thin air, but that'd be about what I'd charge. Shock would be around 150 more, per arm (yes, I know, that's more than it would normally cost to add shock or mono to it, but I'm taking into account that it has to be built in such a way it doesn't fry or otherwise overly injure the person using them).

Alasseo said:

24000 out of question Fortunately, we are well before the situation when the characters own fortunes like in WFRP.

So, I'm speaking of 1000-2000 option here. Will have to look for more money!

And one more thing: how do replaceable weapons function? I mean, how do I attach them to my socket in the arm - will they first need to undergo some customization? If so, how much?

This probably will be of absolutely no help to you what-so-ever, but this is a great chance to infiltrate the Beast House and go all 40k psycho-weird. Just replace them arms with Evisorators! and get a Helping Hands servitor, manipulator skull, or even a cherub (bonus points for that one) to do things like pick up your laundry, brush your teeth, feed you, etc. You get to have a character who's iconicaly a genuine 40k psycho and the Inquisition gets someone who looks like they belong in the pit fights of the Beast House, everyone wins ;-)

At least that's what I'd try to do so as not to waist such a golden opportunity for lunacy.

I gotta hand it to you, awesome situation to be in! Go the 'borg' look, get a bionic arm (or bio-arm graft) for one and get a bionic arm with an implanted/permanent Vivisector on it too. +10 Intimidation/Interrogation *and* creepy. If anyone asks, say you used to be an award winning butcher before 'the accident'. Giving it an injector rig too might mean you can happily say you became a nurse-surgeon-barber thanks to your handy replacement.

Don't worry though, your character won't get into too much trouble in the meantime, folks will just think he's 'armless!

egalor said:

What kind of rule are you refering to?

I mean, once you've paid the amount of thrones (or someone else has done it for you) and an appropriate amount of days have passed for the surgery and healing process to work, you can use the Implant. Most implants are pretty easy to use, since they often only have one function, so it is assumed that you learn to use it pretty much immediately (or perhaps you are given some instructions during the time you heal from the surgery).

Mechadendrites are of course not that easy to use, that's why they require the relevant Mechadendrite Use - Talent.

Xisor said:

Personally, this is the look I think he should go for:

Now THOSE are quite a pair of replacement bionic arms!

Bionics are all over the place, gun and combat servitors (and tech priests) are great examples of replacing limbs with weapons. In fact bionics are so common it should not be difficult for you (or likely your fellow accolytes) to find a bounty with bionics and get some free arms, they may not be the highest quality but better than nothing. Then you just need to pay to get them attached (if your group doesn't have anyone with decent Medic skills).

Alternatively you might be able to trade for some. Surely the AdMech will have many spare parts, and may have use for a group with your particular skills. Or maybe just a pawn shop, or medical center.

In the mean time I hope you haven't been neglecting your social skills/talents, or it will be a boring session for you (I wouldn't be surprised if this was a hint from you GM).

egalor said:

I'd say, yes they will need some customisation- indeed, they'd probably need to be custom-built, and replace the standard grip and trigger assembly with a modified version worked by an electrical/mechanical/hydraulic linkage to the socket on the arm. In addition, I'd say that they would quite possibly need a counterweight behind the pivot point, depending upon exactly how you planned to have it attach- in line with the weapon, at the very butt (probably the simplest and easiest with stuff up to carbine size), no counterweight needed; offset but parallel, potentially close to the butt (almost as though it were a conventional weapon, with the socket either above or below the main weapon), a counterweight may help, and it will be the closest method of using a longarm to the techniques your character is already used to, if not necessarily appropriate for heavy weapons; from above, with either a sharp angle to the weapon or with the forearm parallel to it, a counterweight would almost certainly be needed, but it would be fairly easy to use rapid-firing heavy weapons and/or grenade launchers, and the technique would be similar to what your character would be used to.

Needless to say, these modifications would preclude the use of your weapons by anyone who doesn't have the same bionic rig as your character does. I'd rule that those modifications could be built into any good quality weapons you commission at no extra cost (beyond the usual for good quality).

As for using any weapon with bionic hands- you may need to get the trigger guard (and possibly the grip) enlarged somewhat for you to be able to use it with your big steel fingers...

Varnias Tybalt said:

Hehehe, that's what I need! Only please add the Arbites uniform and I'm set!

Too expensive though (unless I get arcoflagellated...)

egalor said:

Too expensive?! For an Arbiter with a uniform? Sure, I guess if you were to actually pay money for them...

Are there any criminals in lock up who have such arms? If so, bing-o, you just found a free set! You have a uniform, credentials, authority, perhaps your local friendly Tech-Priest has need of such things. Perhaps for a few favors from someone with such authority, they'd be happy to get those arms for you. There's more then one way to get most anything, you've just gotta think outside the money box.

I still insist that eviserator or at least chain-sword arms are the way to go ;-)