Also is there a list of all the prize support somewhere? I can't seem to find some of the cooler items (like the dice) in the 'normal' tournament kits. Were they just released in much older kits?

1. That is way too much for a regional.

Yes. Yes it is.

2. What is the $400 pirze?

$400 cold cash, as well as the plaque, and the other stuff one normally gets.

3. I think they're definitely are players who don't want to play that type of game and then go on and vent on the internet and I'm like how do they get surprised by this? It's a tournament.

Well, if their local store championship has gone on the first two years without out of towners, they might not expect it. So, yeah, they might be surprised.

Our local game group doesn't cheat, and most people who cheat aren't allowed back. If it was an accident, fine, but if it was blatant or repeated... And most locals know if they are caught theyd have to start driving to a farther away store. If your already driving a hour or more, well, its not as big of a deal.

I'm starting to get a little frustrated with your posts, because I'm in the group of people you seem to be targeting here. Like others upthread, I had to travel for SCs: the closest was 90 minutes from home. Should the people who hosted me (graciously!) suspect me of cheating, then, just because I was meeting them for the first time?

The incentive to fly casual and play fair is the same at an SC in another town as it is at my dining room table. The whole point of Fly Casual is that your behavior shouldn't be different in different settings: always act like the kind of person you would want to invite back.

Not trying to offend, all I'm saying is that weve had an abundance of people come in and not fly casual, and honestly, its gotten þo the point where people stop showing because people come in with bad attitudes.

1. That is way too much for a regional.

Yes. Yes it is.

2. What is the $400 pirze?

$400 cold cash, as well as the plaque, and the other stuff one normally gets.

3. I think they're definitely are players who don't want to play that type of game and then go on and vent on the internet and I'm like how do they get surprised by this? It's a tournament.

Well, if their local store championship has gone on the first two years without out of towners, they might not expect it. So, yeah, they might be surprised.

What store is giving away $400? I'll go to that one.

Part of the problem with this whole discussion is that we are combining the idea that because something is "not wrong", it is also "not bad", at least insofar as the health of the game is concerned. It isn't wrong for top players to go play wherever they wish. That doesn't necessarily mean it is entirely a good thing. I'd say the sudden ramping up of the competitive level is probably a discouragement for many players and therefore not the best for the health of the X- Wing community. The difficulty curve now rises much more sharply from casual play/league play to store championships, and SOME will be discouraged from participating for any number of reasons (fear, despair, shyness, resentment, etc). Discouraged players are probably generally bad for business.

Some people will, of course, also want to rise to the challenge.

Some people will just want exposure to new people.

So my thoughts are that it clearly isn't "wrong", and the players who do it aren't "bad", but that doesn't mean it is "good". We could debate for years on whether it is good or bad for the game, and that is probably defined for you if you lean toward the shy/cautious/worrying end of the spectrum, or the "rise to the challenge" end of the spectrum. My presumption is that most gamers are inclined toward the former, so it is probably a little bad for the growth/life of the game, but this is entirely conjecture and opinion.

Also is there a list of all the prize support somewhere? I can't seem to find some of the cooler items (like the dice) in the 'normal' tournament kits. Were they just released in much older kits?

http://kevbelisle.github.io/XWingPromos/

While I agree that Store Championships are the 1st step in the "serious business" of FFG's Organized Play and should be treated as a winner-take-all, to the victor goes the spoils affair, i can totally understand where the OP is coming from.

Let's say his LGS is a relatively out of the way store with a small but solid player base. 10-12 people. Out of any monthly Tourney or league night they expect 8-9 ppl (because life is often inconvenient). These people aren't highly competitive, and tinker around with weird lists. SC time comes around, and the TO expects his same group of players to show up. The players are amped to bsut out the big chops and see the top dog for their area. But upon the big day, 4 randos show up from out of town with optimized lists, and curbstomp all the locals. They aren't rude, or ungracious, they just beat the hell out of everyone and leave, never to be seen again. How do you think those locals feel? They aren't entirely justified in feeling "cheated" out of swag, but you can surely understand where the dissatisfaction comes from.

And consider this: What if, say, Paul Heaver, who's arguably the best player right now (2 Championships), decides to go to every SC within a 500 miles radius of his home and crush every SC. He might not win every one. Dice and Lady Luck are fickle mistresses as we all know. But say he wins a dozen of them. Or more. Is that still acceptable? After all, one should play to the best of his ability.

So random person they don't know and don't know his skill level is the same thing as Gordon Ramsay coming in winning?

For casual players that bring in lists with all their favorite ships, it sure can feel that way. I don't know of anyone that drives three hours for a 10 dollar prize, who doesn't plan on trying to crush everyone there.

A good competitive player is probably not driving 3 hours to stomp pubs for kicks; they can do that any evening they like on Vassal without burning gas or family time. Traveling to other stores is a great way to experience match-ups you haven't normally experienced, which both spices-up the experience and helps you grow as a competitive player, and is a good way to look for any sort of silver bullet lists that you have a poor match-up against. That sort of thing that could blindside you at a big event.

(Most of) those players are not coming to swipe your prizes & drink your tears - they are hoping to learn from you and play games that are different from those in their local area.

But, on that same token...

I said people, not person.

Its not one guy. Weve had several try and swap shields, several get angry and throw tantrums when some of our locals one, and even had to open up a new starter set because someone thought one of our locals was using altered dice.

Like I said afterwards, we didnt mind having people from out of town on normal days, but since our store has a casual reputation as well as a reputation for good additional prizes, we have to deal with the assholes who come in thinking their netlist can't beat a list that wouldn't see the light of day in any other meta.

Weve had the shield thing happen enough that our TO actually watches for it.

...This is a thing that is unfortunately common when you have valuable prizes on the line, because (as was noted in the quote), the risk/reward for the cheater who doesn't intend to ever come back to the same store is tilted heavily in their favor (especially true of smaller venues / events with limited staff, which are unlikely to have the training necessary to catch a good cheater). This is also why the FFG prizes are mostly small things, and FFG's own recommendation is for TOs / store owners not to boost the prize pool.

Clubs & store owners that want to offer bigger prizes for locals should be handling that separately from standard store tournaments, with invite-only restrictions and / or some sort of membership requirement to curtail that sort of thing.

Let's say his LGS is a relatively out of the way store with a small but solid player base. 10-12 people. Out of any monthly Tourney or league night they expect 8-9 ppl (because life is often inconvenient). These people aren't highly competitive, and tinker around with weird lists. SC time comes around, and the TO expects his same group of players to show up. The players are amped to bsut out the big chops and see the top dog for their area. But upon the big day, 4 randos show up from out of town with optimized lists, and curbstomp all the locals. They aren't rude, or ungracious, they just beat the hell out of everyone and leave, never to be seen again. How do you think those locals feel? They aren't entirely justified in feeling "cheated" out of swag, but you can surely understand where the dissatisfaction comes from.

Why should they be dissatisfied? Should they have the myopic view that only they are allowed to compete in their store's Championship event? If they had that attitude about non-locals, then I would hate to be apart of that group. Like I said in an earlier post, it's about having reasonable expectations when it comes to the different levels of competitive tournaments.

Competitive: Competitive events require players to have general knowledge of a game’s rules. While experienced players will come to these events to compete for prizes, players should not be punished for their lack of understanding in the finer points of Star Wars: X-Wing™ Miniatures Game rules. Players can come to these events expecting a consistent experience from store to store. This tier includes Store Championships and unique, one-off events such as the X-Wing™ Wave 4 Assault at Imdaar Alpha event.

While I agree that Store Championships are the 1st step in the "serious business" of FFG's Organized Play and should be treated as a winner-take-all, to the victor goes the spoils affair, i can totally understand where the OP is coming from.

Let's say his LGS is a relatively out of the way store with a small but solid player base. 10-12 people. Out of any monthly Tourney or league night they expect 8-9 ppl (because life is often inconvenient). These people aren't highly competitive, and tinker around with weird lists. SC time comes around, and the TO expects his same group of players to show up. The players are amped to bsut out the big chops and see the top dog for their area. But upon the big day, 4 randos show up from out of town with optimized lists, and curbstomp all the locals. They aren't rude, or ungracious, they just beat the hell out of everyone and leave, never to be seen again. How do you think those locals feel? They aren't entirely justified in feeling "cheated" out of swag, but you can surely understand where the dissatisfaction comes from.

And consider this: What if, say, Paul Heaver, who's arguably the best player right now (2 Championships), decides to go to every SC within a 500 miles radius of his home and crush every SC. He might not win every one. Dice and Lady Luck are fickle mistresses as we all know. But say he wins a dozen of them. Or more. Is that still acceptable? After all, one should play to the best of his ability.

I'd love if Paul was going to be there and I'd go to other one's that he was there to try and beat him.

I also live in london, so thanks to our smaller size I could travel out of london to store championships. I went to 4, journey time of 50min to an hour and a half. There's quite a few small local shops within 2-3 hours travel of me.

No I'm unlikely to visit the stores I went to without a tournament being there, as they aren't local to me. I did generally spend more then the ticket cost to get there though, and played against a variety of players with a variety of lists.

For anyone who cares I finished 29th, 12th, 4th and 5th.

I gave my second dice bag to a casual player at my local club, as I was happening to play him the day after one of my tournaments.

I enjoy playing x wing, I love playing in x wing tournaments, as you get to play a bunch of games vs new people who will generally fly different lists. I've met a bunch of great people, some of whom have become bitter rivals, others trusted friends.

I'm so looking forward to regionals, and then the nationals. Playing my best and seeing how it compares to other people.

And consider this: What if, say, Paul Heaver, who's arguably the best player right now (2 Championships), decides to go to every SC within a 500 miles radius of his home and crush every SC. He might not win every one. Dice and Lady Luck are fickle mistresses as we all know. But say he wins a dozen of them. Or more. Is that still acceptable? After all, one should play to the best of his ability

Okay, seriously:

Would anyone at all be upset if Paul Heaver showed up at their event and played against them? "Oh darn, do I really have to play against the X Wing world champion? He might scoop the dice bags. What a terrible evening."

I just don't get it. Just because competitive players travel to your SC doesn't mean you will automatically lose. This isn't like a little league team being sent up against the Yankees. In the words of Malcolm Reynolds, "we're all just folk now".

And if someone who placed at worlds (or even won a few other SC events) showed up at my store, I'd love the chance to play them (provided he/she wasn't a total d-bag). It would give me a chance to see how I stack up against "the best". I play this game for fun, not plastic tokens.

Well...here's an example. No one in my area plays Fat Hans. Or at least no one in my local store does. We just don't like them. Oh, we have CR-90's, but just never used the C-3PO cards or the Falcon mini. It's just something people in my local shop don't care for.

So...if you have never faced one...what are your chances of beating it in a match?

If you've never played against top lists why would expect a win at a competitive event?

I think I need to become a prize sniper. I keep driving to tournaments out of town and all I've gotten for it were some alternate art cards, some fantastic games against great players, and a boatload of fun! If I actually won I'd probably become some translucent glowing being like Kenobi, Yoda and Vader at an Ewok party!

what a downer of a post.
I love to travel to new or far away stores to play this game...I get to see new lists and new styles of play.

I have seen a local group be disgruntled by the new faces that are (arguably) better players and I was baffled by it...it's great to play new people and I love playing people better than me because I can learn all sorts of things about X-wing that I hadn't thought of.

the store owner should be happy to see new faces too...if the SC "scares away" his regular customers than something is wrong with those customers...not the event or the store or the new faces. (IMHO)

Paul Heaver in every store championship ?

That would be a great thing really

Hmm...I think there's a side of this no one has mentioned. There's the Rocky Montage as well as the Cool Kids Club effects that tend to happen in my area.

Rocky Montage: During competitive "season" (what...Feb to end of Summer?) most of the X-Wing'ers in my area are interested only running competitive lists, talking about competitive list, and playing against competitive lists. Which is understandable.

Cool Kids Club: At events, the social scene tends to get a little strange. Everyone is cordial, but the more successful/dangerous a player seems, the more interested everyone is. No one is actually interested in meeting anyone new socially, they want to meet people they can either learn from or get recognition for beating.

Now, I consider myself a dedicated, but unavailable player. I used to be very good at this game (decent number of wins/top 4/top 8s in league and organized play) before wave 4 hit...now, I'm lucky to make it out of the bottom half. I just can't afford to spend my time at the game anymore. I can't hang. With that in mind, it does make it difficult to head to my LGS during competitive season. When I'm available, I show up to hopefully get a few games in, but I sense a reluctance with most of my opponents. I'm well liked and everyone seems genuinely happy to see me, but no one wants to waste a game on me. Even if I'm running a top level list, it's probably the first time I played it so I'm not going to offer a World's level challenge.

At events, I've been on both sides of it. Everyone wants to be your friend when you're winning or have been successful in some of the other local store champs. When you're bottom 50%...ehh, you better hoped you showed up with a buddy if you want anyone to have a conversation with you, even with the other "losers (I don't mean that =) )"

I tried really hard not to seem like this post was a whine or complaint...simply an observation. To be on-topic, I don't think prize snipers are a problem, for the reasons others previously stated. However, I do feel like the two issues I mentioned are related and come with the territory. It can be alienating at times when the stakes are this high (especially when your friends are exceptional players and you can't keep up anymore), so I understand the disruption competition can have to the social scene.

I once prize sniped. I went down from my big city to this little town with my über list (3x TIE Bombers + 2x Academy TIEs) and reaped the pewter medal from those poor yokels. Then, a friend of mine from my city did the same thing with the same small town.

Regrettably, they got better and one of their aces came up to one of our store championships and took first.

I think we should have stopped him from doing so. After all, smaller towns have no business taking the prizes away from big cities. It's just ... unnatural.

I once prize sniped. I went down from my big city to this little town with my über list (3x TIE Bombers + 2x Academy TIEs) and reaped the pewter medal from those poor yokels. Then, a friend of mine from my city did the same thing with the same small town.

Regrettably, they got better and one of their aces came up to one of our store championships and took first.

I think we should have stopped him from doing so. After all, smaller towns have no business taking the prizes away from big cities. It's just ... unnatural.

That's unheard of! You should be stripped of your medal!

I travel great distances to snipe prizes and exert my dominance as the Alpha-X-Wing player in a 500 mile radius. I want the locals to know that I am the endgame they will never be able to beat and that their entry fee belongs to me in the form of the local store's store credit that I won't spend until a new release comes out so I can come back months later and snipe the stock for that release from the locals too. I also enjoy seeing the disdain and crushed hopes and dreams of local players when my entourage comes with me to school them in their favorite Star Wars miniatures game. They need to know that there ain't no room for the weak in this meta. If you can't beat Decimator/Soontir or BBBBZ then maybe they should rethink their game to win their local prizes or just go play Attack Wing instead.

I just don't get it. Just because competitive players travel to your SC doesn't mean you will automatically lose. This isn't like a little league team being sent up against the Yankees. In the words of Malcolm Reynolds, "we're all just folk now".

And if someone who placed at worlds (or even won a few other SC events) showed up at my store, I'd love the chance to play them (provided he/she wasn't a total d-bag). It would give me a chance to see how I stack up against "the best". I play this game for fun, not plastic tokens.

Well...here's an example. No one in my area plays Fat Hans. Or at least no one in my local store does. We just don't like them. Oh, we have CR-90's, but just never used the C-3PO cards or the Falcon mini. It's just something people in my local shop don't care for.

So...if you have never faced one...what are your chances of beating it in a match?

If you've never played against top lists why would expect a win at a competitive event?

1) that's why some people just don't show up to SC at their local store when out of towners are expected.

2) If you never had out of towners show up before and no one in your area ever plays a Fat Han, why would you ever expect one?

3) Some people just don't find the game fun against "top lists" and would rather avoid going to such an event.

Then again, I am good and I did go undefeated into Swiss without having played too many games vs. "meta" lists.

And here I and my group are encouraging out of towners to come and play at our tournaments... WE EVEN INVITED THEM FOR A GAME NIGHT ESCALATION TOURNAMENT! What have we been thinking?! Oh right... Have fun and learn interesting tactics. Prize support to boot. I went to 4 SCs, (one I got dead last but still had fun) and everyone was in on the conversations. Sadly I got second twice never the plaque, my 2014 one will have to do. You might be surprised with your groups competency if you actually attend. Not everyone coming from out of town is a "L33t skill" pilot, they come for the game.

I once prize sniped. I went down from my big city to this little town with my über list (3x TIE Bombers + 2x Academy TIEs) and reaped the pewter medal from those poor yokels. Then, a friend of mine from my city did the same thing with the same small town.

Regrettably, they got better and one of their aces came up to one of our store championships and took first.

I think we should have stopped him from doing so. After all, smaller towns have no business taking the prizes away from big cities. It's just ... unnatural.

Let's not misconstrue the OP's point because he mentioned that it included going to sparsely populated areas. That wasn't the point, and you likely know it. I'm more willing to accept the premise to the extent that I don't believe we can act like it totally has no issues, so I am biased, but let's not throw up strawmen so we can knock them down.

Wait wait wait..... when a group is coming from out of town to prize snipe..... How are they all going to snipe? There's only one first-place prize! Does the group think that if they dominate well enough that the entire gang gets a regional bye?

Or could it be that they like the game, and like to play in large events, and like to travel together?

ITT: journeyman gamers are somehow bad for a competitive game that's continuing to grow and expand.