Let's simplify this down to the core. This is about prizes. Pure and simple. Let's not kid ourselves.

The militant casual wants to keep the prizes "within the group" and the competitive a-hole wants to win as many as possible. Both positions are wrong. But luckily, the second group hasn't been very prevalent in this game. Non-existant, no. But not enough to justify this isolationist ideas for the beginning of the tournament circuit.

I am dealing with social anxiety. A tournament can be extremely taxing on me, and I don't think I can currently handle a Regional. But I love traveling to other stores to play. To those who enjoy the competition, playing NEW people is half the fun. Playing the same people over and over again can get boring. Why do you think FFG has that little bit about allowing to mess with the first round pairings to let people play people that they didn't come with. But, because I am a mediocre player with little expectation to win, that makes me better than a top player, who travels for the same reason? Crap.

It all comes down to greed for rather misc. prizes, competitive or casual.

It's not about keeping prizes. It's about bad sportsmanship, and how if you really wanted to play more people that there's plenty of different times for that, where you won't step on any people's toes, and would be better for your social anxiety.

Also, what about the byes that have appeared on ebay?

Just people trying to make some easy money. The winners of Byes are sent to FFG, so the Byes are non transferable.

First of all, nobody is being "robbed"; that's entitlement talking again, and you can't have something taken away that wasn't yours in the first place. Second of all, you can't win more than one bye anyway, so even if you take first place another player is going to get it.

it's not entitlement. Its the fact that there's a bunch of people who can't travel and have only one shot.

Think of it in sheer dice factor.

If everything is equal it increases your odds of having a lucky streak, and favorable matchups. You make a mistake, oh well, you can always travel þo another one.

If you can't afford to travel, you only have one chance, against whatever matchup appears, with whatever the dice throw your way.

Promoting the idea that traveling multiple hours to go to different championships penalizes those of us who barely can afford this game in the first place.

Even if the traveler's don't come in first they are still playing spoiler in multiple locations.

What your're saying is that, since some people can't travel, no one should be allowed to?

I suppose we should also ban C-3P0 (and other upgrade cards from the Tantive IV), since some people can't afford it, right?

it's not entitlement. Its the fact that there's a bunch of people who can't travel and have only one shot.

Think of it in sheer dice factor.

If everything is equal it increases your odds of having a lucky streak, and favorable matchups. You make a mistake, oh well, you can always travel þo another one.

If you can't afford to travel, you only have one chance, against whatever matchup appears, with whatever the dice throw your way.

Promoting the idea that traveling multiple hours to go to different championships penalizes those of us who barely can afford this game in the first place.

Even if the traveler's don't come in first they are still playing spoiler in multiple locations.

Also, what about the byes that have appeared on ebay?

Yeah, that's still entitlement. Not being able to travel yourself doesn't mean that the people who can should be hamstrung accordingly. What other handicaps do you want to impose on other players? You only own certain ships, so they can only play with those as well? You only have enough time to practice 2 hours a week, therefor your opponents are only permitted the same? I hope you can understand how patently unfair those impositions are.

If everything is equal, etc etc etc. Everything is not equal, nor does it need to be. People have varying degrees of time, energy, resources, and skill. Simply put, the people who want to win are going to put in the effort, and it's nobody's business to tell them they can do otherwise. Believing that it's unfair of them to try belies, again, a sense of entitlement that the kit and prizes are for locals only. If you want the loot for yourself that badly, you're going to have to put in the effort to earn it, just like everyone else.

First of all, nobody is being "robbed"; that's entitlement talking again, and you can't have something taken away that wasn't yours in the first place. Second of all, you can't win more than one bye anyway, so even if you take first place another player is going to get it.

it's not entitlement. Its the fact that there's a bunch of people who can't travel and have only one shot.

Think of it in sheer dice factor.

If everything is equal it increases your odds of having a lucky streak, and favorable matchups. You make a mistake, oh well, you can always travel þo another one.

If you can't afford to travel, you only have one chance, against whatever matchup appears, with whatever the dice throw your way.

Promoting the idea that traveling multiple hours to go to different championships penalizes those of us who barely can afford this game in the first place.

Even if the traveler's don't come in first they are still playing spoiler in multiple locations.

What your're saying is that, since some people can't travel, no one should be allowed to?

I suppose we should also ban C-3P0 (and other upgrade cards from the Tantive IV), since some people can't afford it, right?

No, what I am saying, is that its bad form to ONLY travel when its a store championship. It's acceptable to travel any other time, and if you play in a store before the championship, then it's acceptable. I've said that numerous times.

It's bad form to show up and decide to try and noob-stomp some other area's players because you can travel to different stores and find a weaker player base. Thats what it appears like when you travel to multiple store championships. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, but everyone on this board seems to get super defensive and is calling me out on being militant casual.

I don't even qualify as casual. As I've said before, I've won many different tournaments and have a collection of 'prize' ships.

First of all, nobody is being "robbed"; that's entitlement talking again, and you can't have something taken away that wasn't yours in the first place. Second of all, you can't win more than one bye anyway, so even if you take first place another player is going to get it.

it's not entitlement. Its the fact that there's a bunch of people who can't travel and have only one shot.

Think of it in sheer dice factor.

If everything is equal it increases your odds of having a lucky streak, and favorable matchups. You make a mistake, oh well, you can always travel þo another one.

If you can't afford to travel, you only have one chance, against whatever matchup appears, with whatever the dice throw your way.

Promoting the idea that traveling multiple hours to go to different championships penalizes those of us who barely can afford this game in the first place.

Even if the traveler's don't come in first they are still playing spoiler in multiple locations.

What your're saying is that, since some people can't travel, no one should be allowed to?

I suppose we should also ban C-3P0 (and other upgrade cards from the Tantive IV), since some people can't afford it, right?

No, what I am saying, is that its bad form to ONLY travel when its a store championship. It's acceptable to travel any other time, and if you play in a store before the championship, then it's acceptable. I've said that numerous times.

Never mind that those people travelling might not be able to afford to do it regularly, so a special event is the only time they can justify it. Because that's the boat I and most of my friends are in. The tournaments are a set date that we can lock into our calenders well ahead of time, we can organise a car pool so a bunch of us can get there and back without breaking the bank on fuel, and we're (more or less) guaranteed a good turnout from the locals, and possibly people travelling in from other destinations, so we can meet a bunch at once. If we were forced to operate by your silly restrictions we'd never get out to meet any of the other groups. Driving considerable distance for random game nights just isn't feasible in the real world.

First of all, nobody is being "robbed"; that's entitlement talking again, and you can't have something taken away that wasn't yours in the first place. Second of all, you can't win more than one bye anyway, so even if you take first place another player is going to get it.

it's not entitlement. Its the fact that there's a bunch of people who can't travel and have only one shot.

Think of it in sheer dice factor.

If everything is equal it increases your odds of having a lucky streak, and favorable matchups. You make a mistake, oh well, you can always travel þo another one.

If you can't afford to travel, you only have one chance, against whatever matchup appears, with whatever the dice throw your way.

Promoting the idea that traveling multiple hours to go to different championships penalizes those of us who barely can afford this game in the first place.

Even if the traveler's don't come in first they are still playing spoiler in multiple locations.

What your're saying is that, since some people can't travel, no one should be allowed to?

I suppose we should also ban C-3P0 (and other upgrade cards from the Tantive IV), since some people can't afford it, right?

No, what I am saying, is that its bad form to ONLY travel when its a store championship. It's acceptable to travel any other time, and if you play in a store before the championship, then it's acceptable. I've said that numerous times.

It's bad form to show up and decide to try and noob-stomp some other area's players because you can travel to different stores and find a weaker player base. Thats what it appears like when you travel to multiple store championships. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, but everyone on this board seems to get super defensive and is calling me out on being militant casual.

I don't even qualify as casual. As I've said before, I've won many different tournaments and have a collection of 'prize' ships.

Yeah, for the majority of the traveling players, it isn't about noob stomping. It is about playing this VERY FUN game with other top players. Which, you expect to see in a tournament circuit. From what I've seen, this fits a large portion of the top players.

Also, what if the Store Championship is a players first exposure to a venue. FFG's listings is a great way to hook players up to venues. And you are saying that the Store Championship isn't a place for a player to meet up with a new group? Silly.

Don't get so offended if you are assigned motivations. You are doing the EXACT same thing to players who like to travel to compete. Kettle meet pot.

And I laugh at the "not everybody is able to travel" bit. Such a weak excuse. It has been used to discredit the Worlds champions by people for years. I am also jealous of those able to spend the time and money to travel and able handle long and big events. Doesn't mean I assign motivations to them.

I am simply explaining why 'we' feel that it's not kosher for people to travel exclusively for championships. You want people to respect the fact that you travel to compete? Fine. respect the fact that a portion of the population has had bad experiences with players like you, and a portion of the population doesn't like when people do that, instead of trying to shame others in to being quiet about it.

And yes, I am. Regionals is, worlds is. A store championship is a championship for that store. Or did those words change meaning?

And that whole travel thing? Thats not weak at all. I live on a college students funds. I have literally tens of dollars to my name. There's no way in hell I'd ever be able to travel to world's, regionals, or even to a different state for this game, as much as I'd like to.

... instead of trying to shame others in to being quiet about it.

Stop trying to shame us into staying home and we might have a deal.

I am simply explaining why 'we' feel that it's not kosher for people to travel exclusively for championships. You want people to respect the fact that you travel to compete? Fine. respect the fact that a portion of the population has had bad experiences with players like you, and a portion of the population doesn't like when people do that, instead of trying to shame others in to being quiet about it.

And yes, I am. Regionals is, worlds is. A store championship is a championship for that store. Or did those words change meaning?

And that whole travel thing? Thats not weak at all. I live on a college students funds. I have literally tens of dollars to my name. There's no way in hell I'd ever be able to travel to world's, regionals, or even to a different state for this game, as much as I'd like to.

A few bad apples should not color their view on everyone. I understand the bad experiences. But I also know that there are those that blow them out of proportion of the playerbase. And I KNOW the "casual" has it's own ugly side.

This year's Store Championships used to be Regionals 2 years ago. So yes, the words change, but they are still the base of the tournament circuit. Just because they added a new layer, does not mean they are exclusive tournaments.

It is a weak arguement when used to belittle others. Do you know how many of dismissed the World Championship because it is held in Nov, in Minnesota? Not exactly ideal travel location or times. And I shouldn't limit others based on my own limitations. By that logic, might as well cancel Gencon, because I am unable to go.

I have seen too many positives to traveling play groups, that to keep them out is just wrong.

You don't like the competitive environment, stick to the other side of the line...

But what about the people who want the prizes, but don't want to compete for them, trade for them, buy them secondhand, or order similar items from a third party? Don't people who refuse to compete deserve to get exactly the same free toys as those who do? You wouldn't want to be unfair to those poor people, would you? Haven't they suffered enough from having to play with people they've never even met before and, worse, cope with new ideas and approaches to the game?

No. The issue is how large is the acceptable distance to travel to a store for a store championship, as well as whether or not it is okay to travel to multiple ones, and finally, whether or not it is bad form to play in a store championship without ever having played at that store before.

My opinions:

A- Only as far as your local store

B-Not okay, you have one 'heat' almost. You win, you lose, its your one shot.

C-Yes. If you really wanted to play other people, there are tons of different opportunities and game days.

The nearest SC to me was about 80 miles, and I don't care to make that commute on a regular basis. Several other players in the thread have chimed in with similar situations. Do you realize that your petty, arbitrary rules would literally bar a number of people from competing anywhere?

The militant casual wants to keep the prizes "within the group" and the competitive a-hole wants to win as many as possible.

And both are weirdly obsessed with winning and prizes, rather than the fact that they're flying plastic ships through imaginary space while shooting pretend lasers at each other.

It's bad form to show up and decide to try and noob-stomp some other area's players because you can travel to different stores and find a weaker player base...

Sometimes if I'm vacationing or even traveling for work I'll bring my minis and try to get in an evening at an FLGS.

Almost everyone I've met playing X-wing in (so far) six states has been great, but you've convinced me that eventually I'm going to run into some wizened soul who's more interested in running me out of his territory than he is in enjoying the game. A few hours of putting up with muttered sarcasm, side-eye, and other passive-aggressive manifestations of typical gamer rudeness might put me off the game for good. Maybe I should just quit while the good experiences still outweigh the bad. What do you think?

And both are weirdly obsessed with winning and prizes, rather than the fact that they're flying plastic ships through imaginary space while shooting pretend lasers at each other.

Pretend lasers they may be, but the headcannons are quite real.

The nearest SC to me was about 80 miles, and I don't care to make that commute on a regular basis. Several other players in the thread have chimed in with similar situations. Do you realize that your petty, arbitrary rules would literally bar a number of people from competing anywhere?

We've been riding the "your rules are ill-formed" "well, I didn't mean you, just the jerks" "but most people aren't jerks, you're just salty because you didn't get easy focus tokens" "prize snipers are real" "but are vastly outnumbered by nice people who just want a good game" "if I leave now, I don't have to confront evidence I'm wrong" merry-go-round for 19 pages now.

I think that I agree with earlier posters about there being an entitlement/greed aspect ("My friends and/or I deserve the prizes because of criteria outside of winning the tournament"), but I also suspect there's some self-esteem issues at play too.

If someone beats you at the tournament, that means you're bad at your favorite game. If you're bad at your favorite thing, that means you are a worthless person. If someone else makes you feel worthless, they're a jerk. And jerks shouldn't get prizes. Recasting your weaknesses as moral victories is a pretty standard coping mechanism.

I'd be really curious what percentage of the people banging the "it's a championship for the people who play at that store" drum buy any of their ships online, and not detect any conflict between those two positions.

Aside, I almost clicked 'like' on a WW post; what has this thread done to me?

We've been riding the "your rules are ill-formed" "well, I didn't mean you, just the jerks" "but most people aren't jerks, you're just salty because you didn't get easy focus tokens" merry-go-round for 19 pages now.

We're getting pretty close to the Defender thread, just hold on out for a few more pages.

We're getting pretty close to the Defender threads, just hold on out for a few more threads.

Like a Phoenix, man.

(FTFY)

On the plus side it is great to see that so many people are passionate about the game even though they may have opposing views on store level tournaments. And polite too

So far, my experience with X-wing has been limited to having someone do an incredibly bad job of trying to explain the rules and whatever YouTube has to offer. I hope to change this by traveling to as many places that will let me in their front door.

I have managed to track down that there was a store tournament held in town, well the far side of town, and it was advertised on a site for people who play Warhammer. It didn't appear on the FFG site. Now, I am not saying that this is what happened but it could be a variant on 'keeping it local'. But it probably has more to do with an aspect of ego - that there just isn't an appreciation that there are possibly other people outside of your circle who play.

We've been riding the "your rules are ill-formed" "well, I didn't mean you, just the jerks" "but most people aren't jerks, you're just salty because you didn't get easy focus tokens" merry-go-round for 19 pages now.

We're getting pretty close to the Defender thread, just hold on out for a few more pages.

Which one? We have quite a few.

The nearest SC to me was about 80 miles, and I don't care to make that commute on a regular basis. Several other players in the thread have chimed in with similar situations. Do you realize that your petty, arbitrary rules would literally bar a number of people from competing anywhere?

We've been riding the "your rules are ill-formed" "well, I didn't mean you, just the jerks" "but most people aren't jerks, you're just salty because you didn't get easy focus tokens" "prize snipers are real" "but are vastly outnumbered by nice people who just want a good game" "if I leave now, I don't have to confront evidence I'm wrong" merry-go-round for 19 pages now.I think that I agree with earlier posters about there being an entitlement/greed aspect ("My friends and/or I deserve the prizes because of criteria outside of winning the tournament"), but I also suspect there's some self-esteem issues at play too.If someone beats you at the tournament, that means you're bad at your favorite game. If you're bad at your favorite thing, that means you are a worthless person. If someone else makes you feel worthless, they're a jerk. And jerks shouldn't get prizes. Recasting your weaknesses as moral victories is a pretty standard coping mechanism.I'd be really curious what percentage of the people banging the "it's a championship for the people who play at that store" drum buy any of their ships online, and not detect any conflict between those two positions.Aside, I almost clicked 'like' on a WW post; what has this thread done to me?

The end is surely nigh.

From now on, you can only reply to this thread by first stating this:

Player Skill Level:

# of SC wins in year:

# of Prizes Claimed:

# of Prizes resold:

# of Prizes traded:

# of Prizes handed to runners up:

Conclusion:

Moving little plastic ships around on tables, with strangers, hoping to win little plastic gubbins.

IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!

Conclusion:

Moving little plastic ships around on tables, with strangers, hoping to win little plastic gubbins.

IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!

Oi, gubbins is serious business. I ain't fixin' ta have me Orky know-wots stolen by no proper gits!

It seems to me that the problem here is the system. If store championships are truly to determine store champions it should be only for people who play/purchase at that store. If it is to determine placement for higher tournaments, each person should be limited to 1 SC. If they are just to provide tournament emphasis and encourage participation, then I suggest changing the name, but it is fine as is.

The nearest SC to me was about 80 miles, and I don't care to make that commute on a regular basis. Several other players in the thread have chimed in with similar situations. Do you realize that your petty, arbitrary rules would literally bar a number of people from competing anywhere?

We've been riding the "your rules are ill-formed" "well, I didn't mean you, just the jerks" "but most people aren't jerks, you're just salty because you didn't get easy focus tokens" "prize snipers are real" "but are vastly outnumbered by nice people who just want a good game" "if I leave now, I don't have to confront evidence I'm wrong" merry-go-round for 19 pages now.

I know, and I'm entirely willing to agree that the problem--to the degree that it actually exists beyond three or four people--isn't about players who travel but about jerks wherever they happen to be playing that weekend. (Every "prize sniper" is local somewhere, after all.)

But apparently we're going to have to go around that merry-go-round again, because Vanderbeam hasn't figured it out yet.

I can testify that with more competitive people traveling from out of town to our events had caused some people in our local area to stop going. It has nothing to do with prize support but everything to do with level of competitive play. Some people find others get too competitive to consider it fun while others are more casual players that just don't invest a lot of time in the game to really be competitive. Not everyone, but I do find it a bit sad. I do like meeting more players. I don't like the super boring meta builds, though.

I don't like the super boring meta builds, though.

Come up with something new, win a tournament with it, and change the meta then?