You both seem to be missing the point here. As blood thirsty pirates, I don't think you will ever understand what it is like to be a peace loving hippie.

You can repeat over and over again that they should just do the same thing that the snipers do and net deck and play ridiculously 'high stakes' matches with hyper competitive players. That doesn't appeal to some people. It never will.

For them it may not have to do with winning, it probably has to do with the environment. And if you think that a hyper competitive out of towner won't affect the environment, you are mistaken.

So yeah, when a small town group that has been having fun together, that doesn't really care who the biggest fish in the sea is, gets an influx of a large group of vicious hardcore players, they are going to feel negative about it.

I don't know how else to explain it to you. Not everyone is a blood thirsty pirate.

You can repeat over and over again that "snipers" = "net deck" = "hyper competitive player" = "out of towner" = "vicious hardcore player" = "blood thirsty pirate", it doesn't make it true. It never will.

Can I quote myself, or is that bad form?

• Obnoxious and unpleasant to play against ≠ fun to play against
• Popular competitive list from the internet ≠ random list he came up with
• Local player ≠ player from out of town
• Honest player ≠ cheater

People need to remember that these are all independent of one another.

I'm all for the casual aspect of the game, but a tournament is there to test skills. If you get beaten by another player, outsider or not, he deserve to win the prize. If you want to win it yourself, practice more. But it's not the fault of the outsider if your local player group is not good enough to compete. Why would the local players be more entitled to the official prizes than someone else who is better? Should FFG start to create different league: Junior, AAA, Senior? I don't think so. If you want some official prizes, earn them...

...To be honest, deciding to not attend a tournament just because some guys from out of town will come in and take the prize seems a little immature to me. Take the challenge. Beat them and make them regret coming into your town. If you lose, learn from it. Stop pretending you're the best because no one in your casual community can beat you; prove it by beating those good enough to take the time, money and effort to travel from town to town to play. If I were the store owner and see that all my players would not attend an official tournament, I would stop making official one and just make local one. If they are not competitive enough to go to a local tournament because they're afraid of not winning, why should they care about getting a plaque or trophy they don't really deserve, Give them store credit prizes and be done with it.

This. A thousand times, this.

You both seem to be missing the point here. As blood thirsty pirates, I don't think you will ever understand what it is like to be a peace loving hippie.

You can repeat over and over again that they should just do the same thing that the snipers do and net deck and play ridiculously 'high stakes' matches with hyper competitive players. That doesn't appeal to some people. It never will.

For them it may not have to do with winning, it probably has to do with the environment. And if you think that a hyper competitive out of towner won't affect the environment, you are mistaken.

So yeah, when a small town group that has been having fun together, that doesn't really care who the biggest fish in the sea is, gets an influx of a large group of vicious hardcore players, they are going to feel negative about it.

I don't know how else to explain it to you. Not everyone is a blood thirsty pirate.

You're playing a Star WARS game. If you're not going to competitive events to blow s**t up maybe you're just misunderstanding the point of competitive events.

You can repeat over and over again that they should just do the same thing that the snipers do and net deck and play ridiculously 'high stakes' matches with hyper competitive players. That doesn't appeal to some people. It never will.

Then why are they hosting a Competitive event? If those people aren't interested in high level competitive events, then they shouldn't be hosting a Store Championship in the first place.

There is a limit on how many stores can host them after all. So why is a group of people who aren't actually interested in things like Regionals or competitive events taking one of the slots that a store with people who do like such a thing?

I mean that in of itself is rather selfish....

The prizes aren't that big of a deal really. You can buy many of the things they offer right now without having to go though FFG for them. Everything other than the alt art cards.

There's a pretty big fundamental flaw here, namely that any given store somehow has the innate right to host a Store Championship, for the local community. There is no such right, running a Store Championship is a privilege and a limited one at that, and one that should not be wasted on a group of people who don't actually want to get involved in that level of competition.

For those kinds of people, they should be running events themselves that they can limit to the local community.

Are Store Championships actually limited? I don't think they are. No store in our area has gotten turned down to run one in the last two seasons - we've had 5 in our city both this year and last year. I think all that is required to run a Store Championship is to have a business account with FFF and buy the kit.

I could be mistaken but I've never heard of a limiting process on Store Championships from an actual store owner or from FFG. There is a deadline that you have to submit by, but that seems to be so they know how many kits to produce.

Jim

There are these things called casual events right, where there are no prizes and people can just bring whatever they want for fun lists.. experiments b-lists, whatever. Maybe go to those if you don't want to fight peoples best and most bloodthirsty pirates.

You both seem to be missing the point here. As blood thirsty pirates, I don't think you will ever understand what it is like to be a peace loving hippie.

You can repeat over and over again that they should just do the same thing that the snipers do and net deck and play ridiculously 'high stakes' matches with hyper competitive players. That doesn't appeal to some people. It never will.

For them it may not have to do with winning, it probably has to do with the environment. And if you think that a hyper competitive out of towner won't affect the environment, you are mistaken.

So yeah, when a small town group that has been having fun together, that doesn't really care who the biggest fish in the sea is, gets an influx of a large group of vicious hardcore players, they are going to feel negative about it.

I don't know how else to explain it to you. Not everyone is a blood thirsty pirate.

But there are so many solutions to this problem, many already posted. Why doesn't your FLGS host a local X Wing club that requires membership to participate, with it's own schedule of events? You could even come up with your own formats & house rules this way instead of adhering to the FFG tournament standards. Membership fees could go towards stocking prizes. If it's too much work for the store to do, why not do it yourself and just have the games at the store (being sure to ask the owner's permission first, of course).

if you don't want to bother with a club, why not do a local tournament circuit with an elimination event every [X]th day of the week; to get in on the goods, you have to play every week. Again, you can invent your own format this way, and build-up to your own grand finals.

I suspect, by the way, that if you were to set up such things, you would find that at least a couple of local players would become every bit as 'cut throat' as the 'prize snipers' you malign.

I also have to ask: if you are not a competitive player, and all you want to do is fly fun lists... what are you doing flying in a tournament setting? If it's just for funsies, fine, but you shouldn't have any expectation about your placement in the event if you're flying something that you know is sub-optimal.

However, I then thought about a store championship I went to this season where virtually all of the players were from pretty far out of town (like 2-3 hours drive away), including my friends and I. Only a single local player turned up, despite that fact than within a 20-30 minute radius there's a reasonably good player base, and I had seen many of these locals at other tournaments earlier in the season. The store owner was quite surprised and disappointed and was pretty sure that the local players didn't bother showing up because they had advanced notice of a large group of strong players coming from a large city >3 hours away.

A lot of people are missing OP's point here, so I quoted the most relevant part. This isn't a discussion about whether or not it's kosher to attend more than one store championship, nor is it an attack on people that have done so. What's being described is a large group of competitive players flooding a small store championship and having the unintentional consequence of pushing away local players that keep the store alive.

Stop derailing the thread because you think OP called you a "prize sniper", or arguing about the merits of prizes and who prizes should go to. "Prizes" and "prize snipers" have become a red herring in this case and its derailing the thread.

There are these things called casual events right, where there are no prizes and people can just bring whatever they want for fun lists.. experiments b-lists, whatever. Maybe go to those if you don't want to fight peoples best and most bloodthirsty pirates.

Just to be clear, because people keep saying 'you', I personally am not a peace loving hippie. Also I understand that it isn't the best term, my point was simply that not everyone is hyper-competitive.

You are welcome to say that only hyper competitive players 'deserve' to win prize support. I disagree. Also I don't think it is a great business model, but hey it works for Games Workshop (I guess?).

I would be perfectly fine if the game stuff they gave out was available for league play, but it isn't. And before the straw men come out: Obviously plaques that say 'world champion' on them shouldn't be sent out to every store. Things like the cool dice, and templates (minus the 'championship' wording) aren't though.

So yeah, I totally understand people who like a nice laid back atmosphere wanting to win cool prizes for playing a game they love and have spent a bunch of money on. I also understand their frustration when the cooler prizes show up at the store they frequent are 'sniped' by people they have never seen at the store before.

I personally don't really care to play in any type of organized event, because I am hyper competitive, and I would rather not stress out over a 10 dollar prize. If I really wanted to I would just buy the items I wanted off ebay. That doesn't mean I can't empathize with other people though.

I, myself personally, and our local group traveled to several store championships within a 3 hour radius. Our goal, of course, was to come away with the win and all the prizes that go along with that. We were, more or less, successful in that goal as our group did fairly well, overall, in these events. And yes, we did get plenty of dice bags and tokens to show for it, plus a SC win.

Without trying to sound like a hyper competitive jerk, this is a good thing for the game. It help to promote the game, first and foremost, and the store itself to players who otherwise would never have been there. Good players should never be afraid of new blood, they should welcome the opportunity to player higher skilled players. This is the only way to truly get any better at the game, by playing the more skilled players. Beating up on the local meta is one thing, but you suffer from the 'big fish in a little pond' syndrome then. Sure your good against the guys you play ever week, but what about some of the better players? How do you match up? It is only when you are able to test your skills against other 'big fish' that you truly are able to grow as a player and learn where your game needs the most work. This is why I really like Vassal as much as I do!

Second, this is whole conversation is based on the idea that the prizes themselves are the main driving factor for the players to travel, and I would beg to differ with that. I have three or four sets of tokens now and more dice bags then I'll ever need. After my first SC, the prizes no longer held my interest. It was the first round bye that kept me going back and trying again. Part of the system that FFG has set up encourages this, players to travel from store to store trying to claim those big Super Byes! We took it as a challenge, try to defend our store championship and claim someone else's. It a good, friendly way for local metas to start up good rivalries!

I personally believe that this system is awesome and I traveled to store and met people I never would have otherwise if it had only been just my local players. The prizes themselves are secondary but the experience of playing new players, meeting new people, and extending this great community is why I believe this to be a great system overall.

Are Store Championships actually limited? I don't think they are.

Stores have to apply to host a Store Championship. So there has to be some sort of limitation. It's not like they can just order Store Championship kits. FFG may not have turned anyone down yet, but that doesn't mean such a thing can't or won't happen.

But the larger point still stands. If a group of people have no interest in competitive gaming, why are they hosting an event that's by it's very nature competitive?

What's being described is a large group of competitive players flooding a small store championship and having the unintentional consequence of pushing away local players that keep the store alive.

But according to the OP, the local players decided not to show up. So it's not that the visitors took their spots or anything. They weren't forced out, they decided as a group to not attend. That is their own fault and no one elses.

Second, this is whole conversation is based on the idea that the prizes themselves are the main driving factor for the players to travel, and I would beg to differ with that. I have three or four sets of tokens now and more dice bags then I'll ever need. After my first SC, the prizes no longer held my interest. It was the first round bye that kept me going back and trying again. Part of the system that FFG has set up encourages this, players to travel from store to store trying to claim those big Super Byes! We took it as a challenge, try to defend our store championship and claim someone else's. It a good, friendly way for local metas to start up good rivalries!

Cool, do you hand out the unneeded prizes to shop owner to hand out to the locals?

• If so, good on you, the people we are talking about won't care about the bye at regionals.
• If not, then it is the same outcome: You came to a store you never support and walked away with a large chunk of the prize support.

Cool, do you hand out the unneeded prizes to shop owner to hand out to the locals?

• If so, good on you, the people we are talking won't care about the bye at regionals.
• If not, then it is the same outcome: You came to a store you never support and walked away with a large chunk of the prize support.

It seems like your problem shouldn't actually be with out of towners.

Rather, you seem mad that the prize support available at Competitive events (SC, Reginals, etc.) should also be made available in the seasonal, casual tournament kits.

There is cool prizes in the casual tourny kits. Is it the same as in the competitive kits? No. But that's fine. It's like saying you want to bring a team to a pick up school yard basketball game, then get mad when they are not giving out the NBA trophy. What sense does that make?

Cool, do you hand out the unneeded prizes to shop owner to hand out to the locals?

• If so, good on you, the people we are talking won't care about the bye at regionals.
• If not, then it is the same outcome: You came to a store you never support and walked away with a large chunk of the prize support.

It seems like your problem shouldn't actually be with out of towners.

Rather, you seem mad that the prize support available at Competitive events (SC, Reginals, etc.) should also be made available in the seasonal, casual tournament kits.

IMO that would certainly help reduce the complaints. If the only prize at the SC events was a bye to the regionals, the people who aren't hyper-competitive wouldn't care nearly as much.

There is cool prizes in the casual tourny kits. Is it the same as in the competitive kits? No. But that's fine. It's like saying you want to bring a team to a pick up school yard basketball game, then get mad when they are not giving out the NBA trophy. What sense does that make?

****, I thought I did a good enough job at cutting off the straw man ahead of time.

There is cool prizes in the casual tourny kits. Is it the same as in the competitive kits? No. But that's fine. It's like saying you want to bring a team to a pick up school yard basketball game, then get mad when they are not giving out the NBA trophy. What sense does that make?

****, I thought I did a good enough job at cutting off the straw man ahead of time.

But nothing is stopping a store running - say a campaign with the winner getting some custom plaque that cost $20 from the local engraver.

Let the official FFG things be about hard core tournament, rigid rules and scenarios etc.

An individual store can run it's own campaigns.

Gods I wish I ran a store just so i could do something like this...

I mean from a marketing perspective: draws in the gamers

From an economic perspective : $5 entry per session per person, 4-6 sessions, 1 $20 plaque. Pays for itself and then some.

From a Gaming perspective: An actual campaign with the winners getting something neat as a reminder of their heroics.

Everyone bloody wins.

There is cool prizes in the casual tourny kits. Is it the same as in the competitive kits? No. But that's fine. It's like saying you want to bring a team to a pick up school yard basketball game, then get mad when they are not giving out the NBA trophy. What sense does that make?

****, I thought I did a good enough job at cutting off the straw man ahead of time.

Yeah, I get that you just learned what a straw man argument is and have to throw the term around now. Doesn't change the fact that that is exactly what you are complaining about.

And before the straw men come out: Obviously plaques that say 'world champion' on them shouldn't be sent out to every store.

Okay, so was it more of an issue that you didn't read my post?

Second, this is whole conversation is based on the idea that the prizes themselves are the main driving factor for the players to travel, and I would beg to differ with that. I have three or four sets of tokens now and more dice bags then I'll ever need. After my first SC, the prizes no longer held my interest. It was the first round bye that kept me going back and trying again. Part of the system that FFG has set up encourages this, players to travel from store to store trying to claim those big Super Byes! We took it as a challenge, try to defend our store championship and claim someone else's. It a good, friendly way for local metas to start up good rivalries!

Cool, do you hand out the unneeded prizes to shop owner to hand out to the locals?

• If so, good on you, the people we are talking about won't care about the bye at regionals.
• If not, then it is the same outcome: You came to a store you never support and walked away with a large chunk of the prize support.

Cool, do you hand out the unneeded prizes to shop owner to hand out to the locals?

• If so, good on you, the people we are talking won't care about the bye at regionals.
• If not, then it is the same outcome: You came to a store you never support and walked away with a large chunk of the prize support.

It seems like your problem shouldn't actually be with out of towners.

Rather, you seem mad that the prize support available at Competitive events (SC, Reginals, etc.) should also be made available in the seasonal, casual tournament kits.

IMO that would certainly help reduce the complaints. If the only prize at the SC events was a bye to the regionals, the people who aren't hyper-competitive wouldn't care nearly as much.

But that would make the prizes at competitive events a lot less lust-worthy and would attract less people.

Am I going to drive a couple hours to attend a Regional where I can win prizes I've already got? Probably not.

Am I going to drive a couple hours to attend a Regional where I can win awesome prizes I can't get otherwise? Hell yes!

This is just me though; I'm a sucker for the promos. Sure, facing higher-caliber opponents in a large tournament is awesome, but I'm not sure it's enough to get me to drive a couple hours; I'll just sign up for the VASSAL tournaments.

I would be perfectly fine if the game stuff they gave out was available for league play, but it isn't. And before the straw men come out: Obviously plaques that say 'world champion' on them shouldn't be sent out to every store. Things like the cool dice, and templates (minus the 'championship' wording) aren't though.

As Klutz pointed out, this seems to be your primary gripe. If so, take it up with Organized Play, not with the players here. For whatever reason (and there are plenty of arguments against your case, but this isn't the place for them) Fantasy Flight's Organized Play department has chosen to make certain prizes exclusive to their competitive structure. You cannot expect to win those prizes without participating in the competitive structure, so your options are (1) buy them from someone who did win them, (2) buy after market pieces that serve the same function, (3) try your hand at a competitive event while acknowledging that the atmosphere may be unfamiliar, (4) ignore those prizes, or (5) complain on the internet to a bunch of people who can't help you.

Doesn't change the fact that that is exactly what you are complaining about.

Agreed, it does seem like the prizes are the real issue here. That 'out of towners' are walking away with a large chunk of the prizes that somehow belongs to the people who play at that store.

It's not a strawman, it's exactly what Benbaxter seems to be saying with nearly every post. If needed I'd have no problem pasting in a number of quotes that back that up.

There is cool prizes in the casual tourny kits. Is it the same as in the competitive kits? No. But that's fine. It's like saying you want to bring a team to a pick up school yard basketball game, then get mad when they are not giving out the NBA trophy. What sense does that make?

****, I thought I did a good enough job at cutting off the straw man ahead of time.

Yeah, I get that you just learned what a straw man argument is and have to throw the term around now. Doesn't change the fact that that is exactly what you are complaining about.

And before the straw men come out: Obviously plaques that say 'world champion' on them shouldn't be sent out to every store.

Okay, so was it more of an issue that you didn't read my post?

Second, this is whole conversation is based on the idea that the prizes themselves are the main driving factor for the players to travel, and I would beg to differ with that. I have three or four sets of tokens now and more dice bags then I'll ever need. After my first SC, the prizes no longer held my interest. It was the first round bye that kept me going back and trying again. Part of the system that FFG has set up encourages this, players to travel from store to store trying to claim those big Super Byes! We took it as a challenge, try to defend our store championship and claim someone else's. It a good, friendly way for local metas to start up good rivalries!

Cool, do you hand out the unneeded prizes to shop owner to hand out to the locals?

• If so, good on you, the people we are talking about won't care about the bye at regionals.
• If not, then it is the same outcome: You came to a store you never support and walked away with a large chunk of the prize support.

Actually, yes, yes I did. I gave away a few token packs, Sootir Fel cards as far as the eye could see, and some of the bags. Usually this happened whenever I would be knocked out, which was near the top 8.

I also still have extra after that, which I am giving away in our local league. So I really do feel that I have done part to share the wealth so to speak.

All of that being said, I do not know that everyone had done the same. I am sure there were folks who took the prizes and ran.

People I've seen at tournaments tend to be pretty hungry for prizes, but pretty generous in making donations of their extras to the prize pool to add in some sweeteners beyond the basic kit. That's something you don't get if you don't have the serious players involved. Also, I've seen TOs give out promos that were reserved for them (I think? I'm not positive how that works) but that they certainly didn't have to give out. I got a Soontir Fel alt art and a PtL alt art just for showing up to tournaments.