I think it can be an issue for stores that have a "Flay Casual" sense of gaming. Maybe they don't want to fly with all the Phantoms and big, turreted ships. They don't play that way in their local meta. They play in a quiet corner of the world and are happy about it. As soon as some big-wigs with their super efficient lists that crush everyone, I can see resentment. I'm not saying I'm on board with them, but the guys at the local shop each week tend to play to have fun. Half of them won't even attend tournaments as they just don't want to deal with getting beat all the time. It's not that they aren't bad players, but they just don't want to fly the super efficient lists that have the advantage in a timed tournament. So, I can see these guys who play at their local shop want to have a tournament with a chance to win the special prizes without resorting to building "one of those lists".

Yeah, it's an official event and anyone can go. It's competitive and there are prizes on the line. Sometimes those are the types of events that gamers don't like, though, unless it's just the regular guys playing a regular game for a chance to win neat prizes. I've known plenty of gamers that just won't go to tournaments as they just don't like the competitive people that go to them. I'm trying to get some local guys to go to Regionals, but no one wants to bother as they won't have fun.

The only problem I have with this is that some of the "build one of those lists" mentality is opinion. I know we saw a lot of the same lists winning, but a lot of times they were flown by strong players too. I've certainly seen average players play the "strong" lists and do very badly. I've also seen good players use lists deemed mediocre and win tournaments.

So my problem isn't with you, it is with "local mentality" causing broad based view points that many players take as FACT rather than a marginally factual opinion.

I don't have a store I play at regularly, but there are 3 or 4 I travel 1+ hrs to. It's really interesting when you get talking to the local regulars and hear their opinions. Ive played a lot of games at a lot of stores and on Vassal, and I have my own opinions on certain ships and pilots, and sometimes I walk into a store and hear some very strong opinions about ships and pilots being either really bad or OP, and there are many times my own opinion is just the opposite, and it often baffles me how these players even came to this conclusio, since it differs from my personal experiences so greatly..

It also baffles me how people can group hate certain ships/lists and in turn have issues with the players who use said ship/list. It feels like a form of discrimination. The only time I can even understand the hate towards this player is when the player is obnoxious to play with, which is a different matter.

And in all honesty, players who stay home due to out of towners showing up sure are missing out on meeting friendly people! Heck, I think it's the locals who are more likely to be jerks. The player who drove 2 hours wants to at least have some fun with the invested time! And who can blame them for bringing a known strong list when they have to invest in so much more driving and time to get to the event!

We don't mind out of towners if they come in on normal days and fly real casual, but the ones who come in for prize support (my shop used to offer ships in addition to the standard prizes) tend to take it way too far (weve had to throw people out for actually cheating - trying to place discarded shields on their other ships while you aren't looking) and have really damaged our game environment.

I think it's a bit unfair to compare everyone who travels for a tournament to that one guy you had to DQ for cheating.

Does FFG sell tournament kits that can be used for that purpose?

Yes they do, they're called Game Night kits. They have alt art cards, tokens, ect...

^^^ This. There's a reason why FFG has different levels of competition. The expectations of those levels should also be taken into consideration. When it comes to Store Championships, it's the beginning of the FFG competition season. The expectation from Store Championships is that it will attract a lot of people (mainly because of the prize support), but also because the level of competition will be higher. As a local player, you shouldn't expect only your gaming group to monopolize your store's Championship. Instead, expect people will travel near and far to attend the event because it's designed as such. And if I'm traveling 1+ hours to go to an event I'm definitely bringing my A-game.

Of course they are going to be resentful.

If a local community is going to be resentful because people show up and play the game differently than they do. They really shouldn't be hosting Store Championships then.

One of the prizes you win after all is a bye at regionals, and if no one at that store is planning on attending a regional event, then everyone would be better off saving their money and not getting the Store Championship Kit in the first place.

man, one the stores I play at is called Dragon Snacks, that would be an awesome squadron name:

Dragon Snack squadron vs comics and collectibles squadron? we win on name alone!!!

I live in London, a popular city you might have heard of. Due to various reasons there was just one single Store Championship here this year. I've been playing X-Wing for 9 months now and this Store Championship season was my first, so I was quite excited to test myself against excellent, varied players. Luckily, England is a relatively small country and London has excellent transport links.

I went to 7 Store Championships, ranging from 30 minutes to 3 hours away. In the end, I placed 2nd, 2nd, 3rd and within Top 8 another two times. Never quite managed to get that elusive plaque. But it doesn't matter.

In these last two months I have improved my game massively. I've learned new strategies, come up against squad builds I never would have thought of, met some lovely people and even had a couple of coincidental grudge matches! I've become a better player, and hopefully challenged others to improve their game at the same time.

People who complain about "prize sniping" aren't seeing the bigger picture. We're all here, talking about this, because we love playing this miniatures game. Getting seven chances to travel and practice my skills against the best players in the country was a fantastic experience. I've given a few of my prizes away to deserving runner-ups in the process, because who really needs seven dice bags.

Ultimately, practice (and luck) paid off. Despite coming 2nd in one tournament, I received the regional bye. The final at this tournament was between myself and a player I know well who had, by sheer coincidence, won a store championship the very day before. Since you can't gain two byes for one regional, it gets handed down to the next highest placing player (FFG Rules Pack).

It's been a great spring. I'm totally stoked for the UK Regionals next month, and hope to meet again many of the players across South England for some glorious rematches.

I live in London, a popular city you might have heard of. Due to various reasons there was just one single Store Championship here this year...

It seems unfair that my "Like" button will only work once for this post.

I live in London, a popular city you might have heard of.

Never heard of it... You say it's in England some place? Is that a country or?

Hopefully everyone gets the joke, I'm actually stealing it from a comedian I heard once who said that was a great way to upset a Brit...

We don't mind out of towners if they come in on normal days and fly real casual, but the ones who come in for prize support (my shop used to offer ships in addition to the standard prizes) tend to take it way too far (weve had to throw people out for actually cheating - trying to place discarded shields on their other ships while you aren't looking) and have really damaged our game environment.

I think it's a bit unfair to compare everyone who travels for a tournament to that one guy you had to DQ for cheating.

I said people, not person.

Its not one guy. Weve had several try and swap shields, several get angry and throw tantrums when some of our locals one, and even had to open up a new starter set because someone thought one of our locals was using altered dice.

Like I said afterwards, we didnt mind having people from out of town on normal days, but since our store has a casual reputation as well as a reputation for good additional prizes, we have to deal with the assholes who come in thinking their netlist can't beat a list that wouldn't see the light of day in any other meta.

Weve had the shield thing happen enough that our TO actually watches for it.

• Obnoxious and unpleasant to play against / fun to play against
• Popular competitive list from the internet / random list he came up with
• Local player / player from out of town
• Honest player / cheater

Also, that anecdotal evidence is... anecdotal.

Does FFG sell tournament kits that can be used for that purpose?

Yes they do, they're called Game Night kits. They have alt art cards, tokens, ect...

edit: you are correct that I assumed they did it to make money.

Of course they do it to make money, but that's not what you actually said. You said the only reason they have championships is because the game sells well. This is an assumption, because they can and do have championships for games that don't sell as well. It's also a logical fallacy because you're assuming cause and effect without proof.

Cool, I was misinformed about the prize kits. It was my understanding that there were tokens and prizes that were only available through the store championship kits.

I did say 'only', I therefore offer this addendum: or, they want to promote the game in the hopes that it will sell well.

My store plays super casual. We play to have fun and use lists that are interesting to us. It sucks when out of towners show up with dual falcons against us. We can still win, but its not fun because they take it too seriously, so we don't really bother playing against them.

We don't mind out of towners if they come in on normal days and fly real casual, but the ones who come in for prize support (my shop used to offer ships in addition to the standard prizes) tend to take it way too far (weve had to throw people out for actually cheating - trying to place discarded shields on their other ships while you aren't looking) and have really damaged our game environment.

Cheating players can happen with locals too and shouldn't be generalized towards people you don't regularly see at your store. They just don't stay local for very long.

Also, do you guys hate it when all of a sudden one of your regular local friends decides playing Dual Falcons IS fun? Do you give him a hard time and say "you are taking this game too seriously"? Sounds like it can create some weird issues with the local group when you define yourselves as "casual players who specifically don't play the "meta" squads".

One of the few times when the correct answer is "it's a free country".

This is an entitlement issue. Are players entitled to the prizes at a tournament because they live closer to the venue than another player?

My store plays super casual. We play to have fun and use lists that are interesting to us. It sucks when out of towners show up with dual falcons against us. We can still win, but its not fun because they take it too seriously, so we don't really bother playing against them.

We don't mind out of towners if they come in on normal days and fly real casual, but the ones who come in for prize support (my shop used to offer ships in addition to the standard prizes) tend to take it way too far (weve had to throw people out for actually cheating - trying to place discarded shields on their other ships while you aren't looking) and have really damaged our game environment.

Cheating players can happen with locals too and shouldn't be generalized towards people you don't regularly see at your store. They just don't stay local for very long.

Also, do you guys hate it when all of a sudden one of your regular local friends decides playing Dual Falcons IS fun? Do you give him a hard time and say "you are taking this game too seriously"? Sounds like it can create some weird issues with the local group when you define yourselves as "casual players who specifically don't play the "meta" squads".

Honestly? No it doesn't because we seldom play the same list. Ive played against a few dual falcons, and then they went back in the box. It's more of a variety thing than a 'hipster' thing. It's no fun to constantly play against falcons. This has lead to things like TIE bombers being used frequently.

Our local game group doesn't cheat, and most people who cheat aren't allowed back. If it was an accident, fine, but if it was blatant or repeated... And most locals know if they are caught theyd have to start driving to a farther away store. If your already driving a hour or more, well, its not as big of a deal.

Store vs store and region vs region would be amazing. I'd love to see ohio vs Michigan in X-wing.

Anyway back to the topic. Saying that your store is very casual because you don't fly certain squads is ridiculous. You aren't flying casual you are assuming that you and your store is better than everyone else because of the "moral high ground" you took against those blood thirsty pirate types who fly lists that are perfectly legal in the game.

At first I disregarded this criticism of "prize sniping".

You were on the right track. In order to see "prize sniping" as an injustice, you'd first need to presume that the prizes rightfully belong to the local players rather than the out-of-town people. So this reads as sour grapes, to me.

The fact that store championships can draw players from a wide radius is an indicator that the game is healthy and has a lot of appeal, not a bad thing. If someone wants to be able to beat the "strong players... from the city", the only resources required (outside of the initial investment in the game, of course) are time and information. No one has a particular monopoly on either one.

The thing you are missing here is that it hurts the store owners running the shops. If a bunch of out of towners come in whenever there are prizes and chase off all the locals, then the store basically wasted its money and time. Shops don't run tournaments out of the kindness of their hearts, they do it for business reasons.

They may lose their local customer base because this happens over and over again. Now if all of you out of towners are buying product while you are there, that is less of an issue, but somehow I doubt it.

I dunno, if I were a store owner, I'd be more frustrated with the local players' "if you can't beat them, quit" mentality than I would a bunch of potential customers showing up from out of town.

If the local players actually had the integrity to show up and play the part of gracious hosts, then maybe the out-of-towners would be encouraged to spread the word about the store. They might make it a point to come back regularly and the locals could get better, while the store prospers and can justify running events regularly.

Not showing because you're afraid who might will only keep your skill, your store, and your community weak.

Our local game group doesn't cheat, and most people who cheat aren't allowed back. If it was an accident, fine, but if it was blatant or repeated... And most locals know if they are caught theyd have to start driving to a farther away store. If your already driving a hour or more, well, its not as big of a deal.

I'm starting to get a little frustrated with your posts, because I'm in the group of people you seem to be targeting here. Like others upthread, I had to travel for SCs: the closest was 90 minutes from home. Should the people who hosted me (graciously!) suspect me of cheating, then, just because I was meeting them for the first time?

The incentive to fly casual and play fair is the same at an SC in another town as it is at my dining room table. The whole point of Fly Casual is that your behavior shouldn't be different in different settings: always act like the kind of person you would want to invite back.

I think it can be an issue for stores that have a "Flay Casual" sense of gaming. Maybe they don't want to fly with all the Phantoms and big, turreted ships. They don't play that way in their local meta. They play in a quiet corner of the world and are happy about it. As soon as some big-wigs with their super efficient lists that crush everyone, I can see resentment. I'm not saying I'm on board with them, but the guys at the local shop each week tend to play to have fun. Half of them won't even attend tournaments as they just don't want to deal with getting beat all the time. It's not that they aren't bad players, but they just don't want to fly the super efficient lists that have the advantage in a timed tournament. So, I can see these guys who play at their local shop want to have a tournament with a chance to win the special prizes without resorting to building "one of those lists".

Yeah, it's an official event and anyone can go. It's competitive and there are prizes on the line. Sometimes those are the types of events that gamers don't like, though, unless it's just the regular guys playing a regular game for a chance to win neat prizes. I've known plenty of gamers that just won't go to tournaments as they just don't like the competitive people that go to them. I'm trying to get some local guys to go to Regionals, but no one wants to bother as they won't have fun.

The only problem I have with this is that some of the "build one of those lists" mentality is opinion. I know we saw a lot of the same lists winning, but a lot of times they were flown by strong players too. I've certainly seen average players play the "strong" lists and do very badly. I've also seen good players use lists deemed mediocre and win tournaments.

So my problem isn't with you, it is with "local mentality" causing broad based view points that many players take as FACT rather than a marginally factual opinion.

I don't have a store I play at regularly, but there are 3 or 4 I travel 1+ hrs to. It's really interesting when you get talking to the local regulars and hear their opinions. Ive played a lot of games at a lot of stores and on Vassal, and I have my own opinions on certain ships and pilots, and sometimes I walk into a store and hear some very strong opinions about ships and pilots being either really bad or OP, and there are many times my own opinion is just the opposite, and it often baffles me how these players even came to this conclusio, since it differs from my personal experiences so greatly..

It also baffles me how people can group hate certain ships/lists and in turn have issues with the players who use said ship/list. It feels like a form of discrimination. The only time I can even understand the hate towards this player is when the player is obnoxious to play with, which is a different matter.

And in all honesty, players who stay home due to out of towners showing up sure are missing out on meeting friendly people! Heck, I think it's the locals who are more likely to be jerks. The player who drove 2 hours wants to at least have some fun with the invested time! And who can blame them for bringing a known strong list when they have to invest in so much more driving and time to get to the event!

Sometimes it's not so much that it's a certain list that sets them off. It's the whole meta game. You have to admit that Wave 4 and Wave 5 was really boring. Everyone was talking about rock/paper/scissors. When almost everyone is playing the high PS meta game and you have to either have a Phantom, turret, or a swarm to have a chance to win then it's not everyone's cup of tea. I almost quit going to tournaments not because I thought these lists were unbeatable, but it was just boring to play against them game after game...all day long. I'm sure there are people out there that enjoyed playing that era of X-wing. I did not. I'm not alone.

Of course they are going to be resentful.

If a local community is going to be resentful because people show up and play the game differently than they do. They really shouldn't be hosting Store Championships then.

One of the prizes you win after all is a bye at regionals, and if no one at that store is planning on attending a regional event, then everyone would be better off saving their money and not getting the Store Championship Kit in the first place.

Local stores buy the kits, not individuals. I think that some local stores like to think it would be nice to have some of the new prizes. It's not been until lately that people have really travelled far to go to SC's. So, some places have run these events and only seen locals for a while now. To suddenly have a lot of people from out of town show up, I can believe they would be surprised.

Yes, it's an official event and gives a bye. Anyone can come. I can still understand that guys who show up at their local game store every week don't win any prizes to some out of towners who play boring netlists can not be happy. Not saying one is right or wrong.

Store vs store and region vs region would be amazing. I'd love to see ohio vs Michigan in X-wing.

Anyway back to the topic. Saying that your store is very casual because you don't fly certain squads is ridiculous. You aren't flying casual you are assuming that you and your store is better than everyone else because of the "moral high ground" you took against those blood thirsty pirate types who fly lists that are perfectly legal in the game.

See, I think you are wrong. A lot of the guys that don't want to go to these events just don't care enough to "take the moral high ground". If asked if they will attend, they'll just shrug and say that it wouldn't be fun for them. They aren't wrong or trying to be "holier than thou".

Thing is this would never become an issue if you won. Every event I went to and won I didn't complain and was happy. I feel like the only people who are having these problems are most likely not winning these events and are upset about it. There are way better ways handle it though than be resentful of out of townes.

1. You practice hard, and keep getting better and you play smarter and win.

2. You trade or buy the item you want.

Both of those get you the item you want and are better than quitting or being resentful. Me personally I like the challenge of there being a prize I really want and I have to fly my ass off to get it. It feels great when I win it especially if it was denied to me before! I like to pay the Iron price for my swag.

Championships only exist because people are buying lots of product.

No that's both an assumption and a logical fallacy. You're assuming cause and effect but that doesn't make it true.

Um, so your argument is that a business with the primary function of making money, would be running tournaments for a reason other than making money?

edit: you are correct that I assumed they did it to make money. That assumption is based on a huge amount of historical information that is very applicable to this scenario.

I think it's actually the other way around...

I would NOT be surprised if FFG made very little profit on the tournament kits, and that they see Organized Play as a marketing expense.

The profit they make on the actual tournament kits is probably negligible when compared to the sales they generate by getting players to come out to their LGS, play against other people, become part of the local X-Wing community and maintain their interest in the game.

Right, at the end of the day it is to make a profit. Do you believe that the gents who drive three hours out of their way to win prize support at a second store are going to just drop by now and then to buy product from that store?

I'm not a fan of the term being thrown around here. I will, as a TO that just ran a Store Championship, ask that out of town guest be respectful of other players and the game. I had many out of towners quit after loosing a game or two without notify me. Also realize that tournaments run differently from store to store. You can ask questions, but you can't expect the tournament to change its format.

Yeah, I think some people just don't want to play the type of game it takes to get to the top tables in an environment with highly competitive players. Maybe they aren't resentful. Maybe they just go on some social media and make some vague complaint to vent a little.

Me, I'm fine with it. My state is starting to get different groups from different cities to travel to each other's events. The meta is finally starting to shake up a bit. I like meeting new people. LIfe is good!

I just shelled out $40 for my local Regional, but I do worry that the $400 prize for 1st place is going to turn people into a bit of a jerk. Nothing like a fat purse to make people forget "fly casual".

Yeah, I think some people just don't want to play the type of game it takes to get to the top tables in an environment with highly competitive players. Maybe they aren't resentful. Maybe they just go on some social media and make some vague complaint to vent a little.

Me, I'm fine with it. My state is starting to get different groups from different cities to travel to each other's events. The meta is finally starting to shake up a bit. I like meeting new people. LIfe is good!

I just shelled out $40 for my local Regional, but I do worry that the $400 prize for 1st place is going to turn people into a bit of a jerk. Nothing like a fat purse to make people forget "fly casual".

1. That is way too much for a regional.

2. What is the $400 pirze?

3. I think they're definitely are players who don't want to play that type of game and then go on and vent on the internet and I'm like how do they get surprised by this? It's a tournament.

Yeah, I think some people just don't want to play the type of game it takes to get to the top tables in an environment with highly competitive players. Maybe they aren't resentful. Maybe they just go on some social media and make some vague complaint to vent a little.

Me, I'm fine with it. My state is starting to get different groups from different cities to travel to each other's events. The meta is finally starting to shake up a bit. I like meeting new people. LIfe is good!

I just shelled out $40 for my local Regional, but I do worry that the $400 prize for 1st place is going to turn people into a bit of a jerk. Nothing like a fat purse to make people forget "fly casual".

Wow! If a bye card and a plaque can turned a handful of people into jerks, what is $400 going to do!?!

Thing is this would never become an issue if you won. Every event I went to and won I didn't complain and was happy. I feel like the only people who are having these problems are most likely not winning these events and are upset about it. There are way better ways handle it though than be resentful of out of townes.

1. You practice hard, and keep getting better and you play smarter and win.

2. You trade or buy the item you want.

Both of those get you the item you want and are better than quitting or being resentful. Me personally I like the challenge of there being a prize I really want and I have to fly my ass off to get it. It feels great when I win it especially if it was denied to me before! I like to pay the Iron price for my swag.

I am glad that you can find joy in the game in the way that you explained

Not everyone experiences fun in the same way though, so I can totally understand people feeling upset when their normal friendly game day turns into a cutthroat battle for cash and prizes.