So random person they don't know and don't know his skill level is the same thing as Gordon Ramsay coming in winning?

For casual players that bring in lists with all their favorite ships, it sure can feel that way. I don't know of anyone that drives three hours for a 10 dollar prize, who doesn't plan on trying to crush everyone there.

So if someone travels for an event they should make sure there list isn't good? What if there favorite ship is the decimator or falcon? Why don't the people just try and beat him and have fun whether it happens or not?

Because not everyone is a cutthroat bloodthirsty pirate? Some of them are peace loving hippies who just want to sing songs together and have fun.

Except that the food network didn't sponsor it, they just sold the market the pots and told everyone about the cookoff.

Bad analogy is bad.

If the point is to show appreciation for the regular customers, you don't do that by having an open event, one you know that may attract people who aren't regular customers.

You host a tournament on the normal league night or some other weekend, you don't advertise it rather you only let those who show up at the store know about it. Because if the point is to reward those weekly customers, then you gain nothing by attracting outside attention.

The purpose of a SC is to make money for FFG.

Which they do, by having it be the first step on their OP season. I fail to see how the two things are mutually exclusive.

FFG makes money by selling the kits, but they still care about having people show up for the SC's because those feed into the Regionals, Nationals and World championship.

To that point, the LGS purpose of making money is also not mutually exclusive. My point is that the money comes first in all of this. Championships only exist because people are buying lots of product.

It was mentioned earlier that there is a good way to make sure the store gets money from out of towners if the owners feel it is needed, and I agreed that it was a good idea. I can also sympathize with local players who feel marginalized when those events happen.

A good player traveling a long distance and defeating you is not "prize sniping"; it is someone putting significantly more effort into the game. Complaining about it implies that you should get the reward without doing in the work. At the end of the day, it is a tournament, and you have to beat the competition to earn a prize. And there is no better way to improve your own game than playing against a more skilled player.

I don't think that store owners care about whiny local's opinions when they are getting the added sales of out-of-towner entry fees, soda/snack purchases and possibly regular hobby sales.

Store sniper indeed.

How about guys that just love to play xwing in a competitive setting and are honing their skills for a possible trip to worlds.

So random person they don't know and don't know his skill level is the same thing as Gordon Ramsay coming in winning?

For casual players that bring in lists with all their favorite ships, it sure can feel that way. I don't know of anyone that drives three hours for a 10 dollar prize, who doesn't plan on trying to crush everyone there.

So if someone travels for an event they should make sure there list isn't good? What if there favorite ship is the decimator or falcon? Why don't the people just try and beat him and have fun whether it happens or not?

Because not everyone is a cutthroat bloodthirsty pirate? Some of them are peace loving hippies who just want to sing songs together and have fun.

So having fun and trying to win is mutually exclusive? I don't look at people who come from out of town as pirates, I look at them as people who share a mutual interest in the game and some may even become your friend.

if I were a store owner, I would look at new gamers as potential customers,

get these new faces into your doors and maybe they buy something. I made a purchase at almost every store I have been to. 3 stores to be exact, mostly because I was grateful for the opportunity to play. but they do charge a fee to enter tournaments so I do not feel that horrible for going.

Championships only exist because people are buying lots of product.

No that's both an assumption and a logical fallacy. You're assuming cause and effect but that doesn't make it true.

Except that the food network didn't sponsor it, they just sold the market the pots and told everyone about the cookoff.

Bad analogy is bad.

If the point is to show appreciation for the regular customers, you don't do that by having an open event, one you know that may attract people who aren't regular customers.

You host a tournament on the normal league night or some other weekend, you don't advertise it rather you only let those who show up at the store know about it. Because if the point is to reward those weekly customers, then you gain nothing by attracting outside attention.

Does FFG sell tournament kits that can be used for that purpose? I thought the only way you could get that content was to announce the tournament on the website. If I am mistaken and they can order the cool tokens and bags for a non-broadcast tournament, then I retract the analogy.

I don't think every "prize sniper" goes to a faraway tournament with an attitude of "Ahm gonna beat up these hicks in the sticks and take nr 1 spot and the phat lewtz!"

Some might want to take another chance at store tournament becuase they lost to some git who was borderline cheating.

Now if you've already WON the tournament in your home town and you travel to another part of the country the next day to try and do it again over there,(maybe to sell your prize on ebay) then yeah, you are prize hunting scum and you need to leave some for the other kids to enjoy.*

On the other side there is no reason for local stores to go all Insmouth and complain about non-locals showing up for a tournament either...

* I have seen people with this kind of attitude at some magic tournaments. Luckily they are few in number.

Championships only exist because people are buying lots of product.

No that's both an assumption and a logical fallacy. You're assuming cause and effect but that doesn't make it true.

Um, so your argument is that a business with the primary function of making money, would be running tournaments for a reason other than making money?

edit: you are correct that I assumed they did it to make money. That assumption is based on a huge amount of historical information that is very applicable to this scenario.

I'm not gonna lie, I relished in the fact that people drove 100s of miles to the SC I won in my area because I knew I was the reason their time at the SC was in vain and they wasted gas to get their butts kicked by me.

Edit: As for "prize sniping" and the lack of appeal it may cause, all I can say is tough love. If you want to defend your FLGS, then do it. I tried defending my FLGS from all of the out of towners but got kicked to the curb, but my friend who was also defending our FLGS made it into second, but was unfortunately beaten by an out of towner.

There's really no room to be sensitive about competitive events. You pay. You play. You win or lose. Your level of enjoyment and fun in the event is decided by you, and from there you can decide whether you wish to continue in a competitive or tournament environment.

I just don't get it. Just because competitive players travel to your SC doesn't mean you will automatically lose. This isn't like a little league team being sent up against the Yankees. In the words of Malcolm Reynolds, "we're all just folk now".

And if someone who placed at worlds (or even won a few other SC events) showed up at my store, I'd love the chance to play them (provided he/she wasn't a total d-bag). It would give me a chance to see how I stack up against "the best". I play this game for fun, not plastic tokens.

Idk it sounds like the store isn't very open, accepting or friendly when they just assume everyone who comes in is a jark player and they don't want to play with them.

Have you ever played tournaments in other game systems? I'm particularly thinking of both versions of Warhammer. It's not hard to come to this conclusion based on experience with other game systems. I believe that X-wing generally attracts a higher grade of players and not as many...unsavory types. Still, many of my local players who really like X-wing have come from other game systems where this is the case. I can see where they are coming from, even if I don't believe that it's really like that.

So having fun and trying to win is mutually exclusive? I don't look at people who come from out of town as pirates, I look at them as people who share a mutual interest in the game and some may even become your friend.

Actually, sometimes, yes. This was especially true at the end of Wave 4 and all of Wave 5. When you have severe rock/paper/scissor going on in the meta there are many many many people who find playing against these lists boring. Also, not just playing against them once, but playing against them all day long. I know there are lots of people on these very forums who are tired of playing against big, turreted ships and/or Phantoms all day long. Some people don't want to build lists just to beat these lists. Is that a "bad list". Well, according to you it might be. According to the casual player it's a great list.

Does FFG sell tournament kits that can be used for that purpose?

Yes they do, they're called Game Night kits. They have alt art cards, tokens, ect...

edit: you are correct that I assumed they did it to make money.

Of course they do it to make money, but that's not what you actually said. You said the only reason they have championships is because the game sells well. This is an assumption, because they can and do have championships for games that don't sell as well. It's also a logical fallacy because you're assuming cause and effect without proof.

I just don't get it. Just because competitive players travel to your SC doesn't mean you will automatically lose. This isn't like a little league team being sent up against the Yankees. In the words of Malcolm Reynolds, "we're all just folk now".

And if someone who placed at worlds (or even won a few other SC events) showed up at my store, I'd love the chance to play them (provided he/she wasn't a total d-bag). It would give me a chance to see how I stack up against "the best". I play this game for fun, not plastic tokens.

Well...here's an example. No one in my area plays Fat Hans. Or at least no one in my local store does. We just don't like them. Oh, we have CR-90's, but just never used the C-3PO cards or the Falcon mini. It's just something people in my local shop don't care for.

So...if you have never faced one...what are your chances of beating it in a match?

Idk it sounds like the store isn't very open, accepting or friendly when they just assume everyone who comes in is a jark player and they don't want to play with them.

Have you ever played tournaments in other game systems? I'm particularly thinking of both versions of Warhammer. It's not hard to come to this conclusion based on experience with other game systems. I believe that X-wing generally attracts a higher grade of players and not as many...unsavory types. Still, many of my local players who really like X-wing have come from other game systems where this is the case. I can see where they are coming from, even if I don't believe that it's really like that.

So having fun and trying to win is mutually exclusive? I don't look at people who come from out of town as pirates, I look at them as people who share a mutual interest in the game and some may even become your friend.

Actually, sometimes, yes. This was especially true at the end of Wave 4 and all of Wave 5. When you have severe rock/paper/scissor going on in the meta there are many many many people who find playing against these lists boring. Also, not just playing against them once, but playing against them all day long. I know there are lots of people on these very forums who are tired of playing against big, turreted ships and/or Phantoms all day long. Some people don't want to build lists just to beat these lists. Is that a "bad list". Well, according to you it might be. According to the casual player it's a great list.

But you have to have realistic expectations. If you want to go then it should be expected that you're probably going to have to play against certain lists. I didn't look down on anyone or think less of them for running a certain list because like them i was also trying to win. I've had tournaments where I won and lost and basically played against the same lists. It didn't effect my fun level because a day playing X-wing is better than a day working.

I just don't get it. Just because competitive players travel to your SC doesn't mean you will automatically lose. This isn't like a little league team being sent up against the Yankees. In the words of Malcolm Reynolds, "we're all just folk now".

And if someone who placed at worlds (or even won a few other SC events) showed up at my store, I'd love the chance to play them (provided he/she wasn't a total d-bag). It would give me a chance to see how I stack up against "the best". I play this game for fun, not plastic tokens.

Well...here's an example. No one in my area plays Fat Hans. Or at least no one in my local store does. We just don't like them. Oh, we have CR-90's, but just never used the C-3PO cards or the Falcon mini. It's just something people in my local shop don't care for.

So...if you have never faced one...what are your chances of beating it in a match?

Whose fault is that?

Does FFG sell tournament kits that can be used for that purpose? I thought the only way you could get that content was to announce the tournament on the website. If I am mistaken and they can order the cool tokens and bags for a non-broadcast tournament, then I retract the analogy.

Indeed they do. The Tournament/League kits can be used however the store wants, in whatever format, official or not.

Now, if you are asking about the Store Championship kits, then the answer is no. Because the Store Championship is the first step in FFG's championship circuit. Thus, you have to follow their rules. Which means you have to have an open tournament, to accept those unclean foreign players. Because you are taking your first step into a competitive game, which includes travelling players. Who, in my experience, are far better than the majority of other gamers I have experienced.

In the end, the militant casual vs hardcore competitive player is merely a war of overgeneralizations.

One day the owner decides that he wants to show his appreciation for all the money they spend there, and orders a really nice set of pots and pans for a special weekend cookoff.

Then he should make a point of only inviting those people who spent all that money there.

If the whole purpose is to show appreciation for a group of people then doing something that is open to the public is pretty much completely contrary to the stated goal.

The point of a SC isn't to show appreciation to the regular customers, it's the first step in the FFG's OP season leading up to the World Championship.

Incorrect. The purpose of a SC is to make money for FFG.

This is disingenuous. Fantasy Flight is a business; of course their goal is to make profits (edit: ). They do this by selling games for casual play and by supporting a healthy competitive environment. Store championships are unquestionably about the latter...

I would too, but if the Food Network sponsored the event, I would be surprised if out-of-town specialists didn't show up. Weekly tournaments are to your scenario as store championships are to mine.

Except that the food network didn't sponsor it, they just sold the market the pots and told everyone about the cookoff.

...which was my point here. Store championships fit into the structure of the competitive season. They are demonstrably not for patting loyal patrons on the head (edit: ).

Does FFG sell tournament kits that can be used for that purpose? I thought the only way you could get that content was to announce the tournament on the website. If I am mistaken and they can order the cool tokens and bags for a non-broadcast tournament, then I retract the analogy.

That would be every tournament kit aside from Regionals, Store Championships, and special one-offs like the Kessel Run and Imdaar Alpha (edit: again; I'm going home).

Now if you've already WON the tournament in your home town and you travel to another part of the country the next day to try and do it again over there,(maybe to sell your prize on ebay) then yeah, you are prize hunting scum and you need to leave some for the other kids to enjoy.*

This idea is showing up a lot on here, and I think it's very harmful. People travel to play X-wing for the experience, not the prize support. The opportunity to meet and face off against new players is far more rewarding than a bag of plastic tokens. I know X-wing players all over the country world, and I have almost universally found them to be friendly. Most were very strong opponents that I am better for having played against, and that's what makes this hobby worthwhile to me.

man this thread gave me an idea...........

STORE WARFARE!!!!!!!

FLGS vs FLGS, that would be wild and cool, I think. each month or two one store travels to another to challenge. the hosting store must supply the loot.

.

edit: you can even have shirts made up for your team, wow, why has no one thought of this before?

My store plays super casual. We play to have fun and use lists that are interesting to us. It sucks when out of towners show up with dual falcons against us. We can still win, but its not fun because they take it too seriously, so we don't really bother playing against them.

We don't mind out of towners if they come in on normal days and fly real casual, but the ones who come in for prize support (my shop used to offer ships in addition to the standard prizes) tend to take it way too far (weve had to throw people out for actually cheating - trying to place discarded shields on their other ships while you aren't looking) and have really damaged our game environment.

Store championships fit into the structure of the competitive season. They are demonstrably not for patting loyal patrons on the head.

This does seem to be part of the logical disconnect some people have. Store Championships are not a way to find out who the best player out of the people who play at that store weekly is. They are the first step in the competitive season for X-Wing leading up to Worlds.

FFG could of called them sub regionals instead and they would of been the same.

But you have to have realistic expectations. If you want to go then it should be expected that you're probably going to have to play against certain lists. I didn't look down on anyone or think less of them for running a certain list because like them i was also trying to win. I've had tournaments where I won and lost and basically played against the same lists. It didn't effect my fun level because a day playing X-wing is better than a day working.

Well, that's the thing, though. There are local stores that are far away from the general trend of things. They like their X-wing that isn't repetitive and boring. Maybe they just believe that something like a Phantom is bad form. Whatever the case. They have had Store Championships in the past and it's all local people. They play the game they way they like it. All of a sudden, there are a number of people from way out of town that show up and win all the prizes with the types of lists that they hate playing against. Of course they are going to be resentful.

I'm not saying that this is good or bad or whatever. I'm just explaining it from the point of view of the locals. Not everyone enjoys playing "high end competitive" X-wing.

Well...here's an example. No one in my area plays Fat Hans. Or at least no one in my local store does. We just don't like them. Oh, we have CR-90's, but just never used the C-3PO cards or the Falcon mini. It's just something people in my local shop don't care for.

So...if you have never faced one...what are your chances of beating it in a match?

Whose fault is that?

No one's fault. I still say that not liking to play against high competitive lists is not a bad thing and I can understand when people can be resentful because outsiders have turned what they consider a fun event into something they hate.

Championships only exist because people are buying lots of product.

No that's both an assumption and a logical fallacy. You're assuming cause and effect but that doesn't make it true.

Um, so your argument is that a business with the primary function of making money, would be running tournaments for a reason other than making money?

edit: you are correct that I assumed they did it to make money. That assumption is based on a huge amount of historical information that is very applicable to this scenario.

I think it's actually the other way around...

I would NOT be surprised if FFG made very little profit on the tournament kits, and that they see Organized Play as a marketing expense.

The profit they make on the actual tournament kits is probably negligible when compared to the sales they generate by getting players to come out to their LGS, play against other people, become part of the local X-Wing community and maintain their interest in the game.