(For those who have already seen this rant on the Giant In the Playground Forums, I am the same guy)

I’d like to relieve a little of the stress I feel from GM’ing a Dark Heresy Campaign, the first session of which was not too long ago. To give it a little perspective, I’ll give you a short brief.
There are five different players, a Guardsman who acts like a berserker in combat with his mono-edged cleaver, a Techpriest who isn’t actually that smart, an Assassin who insists on trailing away from the group to climb up buildings for sniping with his highly-modded rifle, a psyker whose player is near-incapable of roleplaying, thinking, or breathing without assistance and a Cleric (the loud priest type rather than the healing chest type) who has called himself Jesus, and occasionally tries to pass himself off as his namesake, to my chagrin.
It’s set on a world that has quite high tech for the Imperium, where the Guard has settled the world after they have conquered it, which is to be the site of a zombie infestation later on. Before then, there are some light investigation scenes for the sake of having some more roleplay-heavy sessions, to find who might be dealing with xenos tech, mysterious murders/disappearing etc.. I warn you now that those of you not familiar with Dark Heresy may not get some of the terminology I am about to use, but I am sure many of you are painfully familiar with the towering idiocy some players are capable of. Which is what shocked me all the more, as my players are, for the most part, people of average or above-average intelligence. Read on, and be horrified.

Once they had been briefed by their Inquisitor, and handed micro-beads, for ease of communication, the party was sent into a shuttle and sent to touch down on the city’s landing pad, the Inquisitor’s ship moving away from orbit, in order to attend to other matters, whilst the local authorities asked the party to stay where they were. The local authorities in this case having flak greatcoats similar to Commissars, and carrying shotguns. The party gave the Enforcers the spiel that they were on shore leave. The Enforcers, not quite buying their lie, taking a look at their full Guard-issue armour, array of guns, grenades, a massive cleaver and sniper rifle. They decide to feed the party a line, asking if they came from the Rogue Trader ship that just came down, to which the party Cleric, the most sociable of the bunch, replies yes.
Now, I was feeling a little lenient at this point, and decided that, rather than arrest them, I would let them know that their presence would be carefully monitored in the city, which the Enforcers of this world have the power to do.
So they decide to do what they set out to, which was to investigate the local populace for rumours about who might be dealing with forbidden Xenos technology. To this end, they intend to investigate the local church of the Emperor, under the cover of simply going to attend the daily service. In order to disguise themselves, they buy some robes to wear. Over their full battle gear. Which includes assault rifles, and in one case, a massive cleaver. And full Guard armour. With helmets! Let that sink in for a moment. The sniper finds a nearby tall building, to provide covering fire from, it not occurring to him that the windows are not only high up, but made of stained glass, thus very sharply reducing any kind of visibility he would have.
Once again, I was still feeling lenient, so I decided to point out the fact that things like lasguns, shotguns etc would be noticed if they walked in with them under their robes. After some debate as to how easy it would be for them to stick the lasgun onto their leg and walk in time with it, I managed to get them to dispense of everything but their pistols, knives, a few grenades, and the Guardsman kept his cleaver, whose monomolecular edge was slicing little cuts through the robe as he walked. But here’s the kicker: They’re still wearing helmets! The Techpriest, his player apparently not feeling in a roleplay mood, decides to wander off somewhere else and contribute absolutely nothing to the session until later.
As they try to walk in through the door, the priest at the front asks them for a donation, and confiscates the Guardsman’s cleaver until after the sermon is over. This little interaction done with, they go on in. The party Cleric joins in with the hymns, whilst looking out for anybody suspicious. The Guardsman does the same whilst the Psyker’s player stares off into space, his three second attention span having been lost due to the lack of killing things. I throw them a bone, and they find somebody with some non-standard augmentations in the back row, who the Cleric decides to talk to. The conversation on his end was so bumbling and awkward, that I basically ended up feeding him his lines. Eventually, they managed to introduce themselves as looking to get into the xenos tech business themselves, perhaps as hired muscle. The Guardsman touted his immense strength, and the Cleric his ability to slip through crowds and skill with people. When the Psyker’s player was asked what talents he had, he blanked. Knowing him, I specifically told him out of character not to start listing off the list of Talents on his character sheet. He starts listing off the Talents on his character sheet. After trying to choke down a small aneurysm, I manage to get him to say that he has psychic abilities which could come in handy (people in character not actually knowing what the names of his abilities mean).
The shifty NPC gives them a small token, so they can identify themselves to his men when they come for the meeting tonight. At this point, the High Priest comes around with the collection plate, his grossly-muscled bodyguard touting a minigun on his back. Think the Heavy from Team Fortress 2 and you won’t go far wrong. The Guardsman, being the strongest in our party, decides to walk up to him, and challenges him to an arm-wrestling contest in the middle of the church. I’ll wait for you to find your brains after they imploded. I think at this point the madness was starting to touch me as well, because I decided to go along with it, once he began putting money down. Naturally, the bodyguard gives beats him with not very much effort, and the Guardsman is assigned to bedpan duty in the church’s hospital until nightfall.
As they begin arranging their plans to go in, I decide to call it a night. Whilst the party’s characters hadn’t picked up any Insanity points, I sure as hell had. I mean, I know I promised them zombies, but I wanted some kind of investigation part beforehand, to set the scene, and provide some kind of insight as to how it all began, the better for them to combat the source of the infection later. Am I asking too much of my players to actually think with the slightest bit of logic? Am I asking too much for them to talk their way through one scene without saying something that makes them look like they should be wearing bicycle helmets rather than flak helmets? Or should I just give up all faith in humanity?

Incidentally, I am looking to start a version of this campaign online, with actual intelligent, roleplaying people. There will be zombies of different types, investigation, mysterious figures, a wide range of NPC characters, and a city in which the choice is yours as to where you go and what you do, within reason. Please contact me on [email protected] or PM me here.

Yours in brain bleeding frustration

Elurindel

Well, first of all: I feel with you. It is not that bad with my players, but in one of my groups the Arbitrator is shouldering a large back... to conceal his shock maul in. Well... you can´t tell that this is a shock maul, that is for sure.. but anway.

But might I hand you some tips to deal with those who do not come equiped with a brain?

"Are you from this RougeTrader ship?"
Allow the player which pc was to say "yes!" a check on Scrutiney to know that this is a trap question.

"So, you are walking along, with the robes over your bulky armour and your helmets being clearly visible due to there size..."
If my pc do something stupid in the "walking-along-with" department, I summarize the picture for them. This normaly helps them to just STOP IT

Talking about !STOP IT!... the point where the guardsman challenged the bodyguard to an armwrestling contest DURING SERMON.... no, I understand while your are "looking for group".

I'd certainly like to play in another online game. Do you have any additional details on such, or are you polling to see what interest is shown?

At the moment, I'm just trolling for interest. If you'd like a more detailed report on the world and city, and what you can expect in terms of action, roleplay and what kind of character you can create, I'd be happy to provide it.

...just...wow. It helps to prevent a small bit of this idiocy to occasionally summarise how stupid players are being. If a player wants to challenge the priest's bodyguard...in a church...during a sermon, you should probably summarise how utterly ludicrous this idea is, as well as being armoured up to the gills in regular, everyday activities. Occasionally dropping in "you think this sounds like a good/bad iea/trap" to players in conversation can help a little too. Have your group roleplayed before?

Elurindel said:

I'm very much interested. If there is anything you want me to do as a player, just tell me.

For the report, I'd only care for what a Player Character would know, since I don't want to know something OOC that I don't know IC. It's just a personal thing with me (I always like learning what's going on by my own accord). With action, I'm not too much wanting it, even when I play a character that is all muscles and no brain. Personally I'm really starting to like politics and intrigue in the Inquisition, Aethel has definitely amped my interest on that regard thousandfolds playing in her campaign. Roleplay is always a handy thing, and I enjoy it.

What kind of character, and limitations would be helpful to simply plot out an idea for a character if this actually goes.

Any idea on how it will be run? Not to sound harsh, but I'm not a play-by-post player. If you're planning on something that's IRC, or VoIP based, I'm all game. If you need any ideas and help, I run my own game online.

Count me as definitely interested. I definitely would like to play a Tech Priest if one would fit into your game idea. Like Fideru I would want just the information my character would have access to. Play by post is fine with me, as would be IRC depending on when the sessions would take place.

It could just be that your players were genuinly bored. Ok, I'm giving them the benefit of doubt here, but still their action "IF" they were made of normlaly intelligent people seems to be set to start a confrontation of sorts. Telling the truth to the Magistratum maybe to have them try to arrest them. Wearing obscene amounts of armor and weapons, probably because they want to shoot zombies which for some reason you promised them beforehand. Arm wrestling in church? Oh yeah, he wants to roll dice. The sniper might not have gotten the fact that the church had lead-lined stained glass and may have been Saving Private Ryan too many times.

Or maybe you need a new group.

I think Friend of the Dork is on to something here. Your players actions really do sound like the actions of board players or players who otherwise didn't know what to do and were looking for a bit of fun. In some cases (the guardsmen) the setting for the scene might have also been temporarily forgotten. Some players, unless regularly reminded through descriptions and reinforced through npc actions and reactions will forget obvious points in a scene for what ever is happening at that time. Sure he was in a church, but suddenly there was a guy who looked like he could be crazy trouble/fun and he was in a position to be interacted with. This may or may not be the case as I wasn't there, but it's a possibility.

I find it's usually best to start a game, any game, on a BANG! If you start on an exciting note full of action with no build-up to it, just start in the middle of it, your players will be pulled into the game much quicker and the chances of boredom bread stupidity is lessened. Te movie industry uses tis tyrick all the time, especially in horror movies. They almost always start wit someone in an unfortunate situation meeting an unfortunate end, no matter the set-up or premise of the movie. This is to grab the audience's attention before moving into the more subtle parts of the story that require the audience to pay a bit more attention and be engaged with the movie.

Opining on a BANG is even more important if it is the first session of a new game. Te players will have minimal investment in the story and, so far, ave absolutely no involvement. Starting on a bang as opposed to a whisper will instantly give them a small amount of investment and get some of their rolling dice and need for action out of the way so you can move on to more subtle tings. heck, the bang doesn't even need to ave a **** ting to do wit the story being told. You could open up in the middle of a fire fight wit a bunch of rag-tag cultists, an easy fight but something to get the blood pumping. Once it's concluded, the cell gets a message tat they're needed in a another part of the sector on planet BlaBla. Skip to 3 and a half months latter (plenty of time for a space journey to be made and injuries healed), they are briefed on the new problem and begin their investigation with their heads a bit more in the game because you forced their heads into the game with the opining fight.

Yeah, whilst I won't deny that my group is mostly action-heavy, I figured they may appreciate even a touch of storyline, and they would have gotten to action so much quicker if they'd simply played along.

Anyway, the storyline in a nutshell goes thus:

The Planet Ascalon, named after the Lieutenant who conquered the world in the name of the Imperium of Man, was a site of a Pre-Heresy colony that had, against all odds, been isolated from other events in the galaxy. It is a large, mostly flat world, rich in stable, mostly non-hostile life, it now serves as part agricultultural production, and part weapons testing and manufacture, owing to the built-up city and open lands, that serve to attract those interested in the mixture of high-tech living from captured pre-Heresy tech, ex-Guard tech from when the Lieutenant gained settling rights for the world to end his career on, and the proximity to the fringes of Imperial Space providing a safe haven for grey market xenos tech from Rogue Traders and suchlike.

The local Enforcers, named Watchmen by themselves, are highly trained and well equipped, as you would expect ex-military and war survivors' descendants to be, and referred to as "Coats" by the majority of the public, due to their lengthy flak trenchcoats they wear.

The Mechanicum has a substantial shrine upon the world, dominating the southwest corner of the city. On the fringes of known space, the Mechanicum feel it an excellent testing ground for tech that can go unnoticed, far from the eyes of the Emperor's more watchful servants.

The Inquisition is being asked to investigate this world, as there have been tales that such technology is on the verge, if not over the precipise of, Tech-Heresy. There have also been sighting of mysterious figures at night that have been said to carry off people in the night, leaving only chewed bones, and there have been murmurs of a madness that grips those touched by the Warp that set foot upon this world.

What you will investigate most is up to you. All you know is, you have little time to get to the bottom of this.

Please submit character sheets to my email address, noted at the top of this thread. You are allowed 1000 xp, and your starting money, plus two months cash. All characters must be approved by myself, and storylines are appreciated.

I second what Graver said, starting off with some action does help.

As to other things like the assain climbing up to find a sniper perch, it is perfectly ok to tell him that there are none as the windows are poorly placed and made of stained glass. He is after all trained for that sort of thing. I know it goes against the grain to just sometimes tell the players something won't work but really it does make sense to do it. Did the assasin know what the building looked like? Most likely he had a different mental image of the building. The GM does need to make allowences for the fact that the players cannot actually see the building/setting in RL and could easily have a different mental image.

Which is one reason maps (as many as you can stomach making) are always a good idea. They are a great tool to get your players on the right page. Also as a fun thing to is bring out detailed maps of areas that you are not expecting any fights Watching your players instantly become paranoid for no reason is one of the little joys of being a GM:)

llsoth said:

Hehe, you mean when your players do something pretty mundane and unimportant, you roll dice behinde the Gm screen and go:

"Oh? Oh no. OOOOhh this is bad, so very very bad..."

And they go: "What? What is?"

And you respond: "erm... Nothing! Nothing at all! Don't worry, you'll find out soon enough."

And they go:

And then they go:

I've sent you an email Elurindel. I've started on character storyline/fluff since that's the only thing I know I can do right now. But, my question is, do you have any specific stuff you want in it?

...Wow....just wow.

I can sypthasize, I really can. One of my players responded, when asked who he was:
"I'm scum, specifically a dreg". *Facepalm*.

We should meet up sometime, compare our parties idiocy. In WFRP the halfling convinced the party to climb up a church of sigmar and piss in the poor people below. I know your pain, truly I do.

cyclocius said:

God-Emperor, that's awful.

Anyways, if anybody else is thinking of joining, I figured I'd get a few things out of the way.

Specifically, the matter of immunity. Being the manin charactres in z ombie fiction usually means you're conveniently immune to whatever's causing the vile contagion to spread. Not so here. So if anybody's thinking of making more characters, I'd make some with the Medicae skill and some Counterseptics in mind.

Well I got my Tech Priest rolled up and sent your way.

Thank you Deimos. We're looking for one more character. So far we have two Assassins, a Techpriest and a Guardsman. So I'm looking for something different, maybe a Psyker, or Arbitrator or Adept, something different.

how did you ever find these people??

I think they're his friends IRL ^^

Okay...that was a painful read. Only because I am a GM from way back when D&D was a boxed set and all you had was a "Sword" as a choice of type of swords. I have lived thru things like this and you will too. Though you may wish you hadn't. I have an interest in your online game, would a Metallican Gunslinger be okay?

how about a Void Born Pilot (Guardsman but with pilot skils)

Have you played with this group before?

If not, try not to have too many expectations going in. Keep your first game simple and exciting to start. Don't throw in too many plot twists or background storyline at them right away. You need to gauge your groups interests and motivations. You are going to find that some people are stuck in a 12 year old mentality of gaming forever. They want to kick down doors, beat up bad guys and get lots of xp and treasure to advance their characters. Others are looking for entire sessions where they explore, investigate and don't pick up their dice for combat all evening.

If this group is your regular gaming group, I have to assume they've acted like this before and you were aware it was coming. If this is true, then you have to plan a game around their style of play. If they were expecting a zombie apocalypse and got an investigative storyline, maybe boredom took over and they started acting out.

It seems you want them to play a certain way. You describe it roughly as playing their characters intelligently.

Why not sit down and have a talk with your group before the next session. Let them know you were a bit disappointed that they didn't take your game more seriously and try to work through the story that it took you time and effort to prepare. If they laugh at you and start falling out of their seats, you might be with the wrong group. If they take your feedback well and seem interesting in going forward, share with them what you envisioned for the game, but don't force your opinions on them. Allow for them to tell you what they'd like to do as well. Maybe what you envisioned isn't right for them.

The one thing you can't do is force someone to play the way YOU want them to. I've f ound the more you try and force someone to do something they don't want to, the more they'll try and derail your plans.

~Mike