Congrats on the awards! Too bad most people in this thread are... well, I won't go any further.
Grats!
The Ennie Results are in!
Varnias Tybalt said:
TheFlatline said:
That DH and FFG/BL did so well is a testament to how electrifying Dark Heresy is. It is literally the first game that has excited the group that I play with since... well since 3rd came out and we did the mother of all dungeon crawls.
I hate to be that kind of bastard here, but I think that much of Dark Heresy's playvalue stems from the fluff it is based upon (meaning the creations of Games Workshop and the Black Library) rather than the game alone. Still BI and FFG deserve all credit for getting a W40K RPG off the ground in the first place, but because of the pre-created fluff making up such a substantial part of why the game is good, I really like the fact that FFG's original creations (like much of what's written in Disciples of the Dark Gods and Creatures Anathema) hold such great, top-notch quality.
I couldn't have said it better.
As for DnD, 4th edition is great, if you remove the name DND from it and treat it as it really is, a Super Hero game. Think Justice League.
Warhammer and Dark Heresy are both much better games if you want to play an everyman. They are also great if you want to play a great hero, but where they shine(?) is in the gritty lower level stuff. They make it fun and scary to play a low powered game. And probably most importantly the rules are comprehensive without getting in the way of the fun. (as often happens in DND)
Congratulations for FFG and the original BI writers, you have made a game that has fulfilled many an evening with fun and I am glad to see all those efforts recognized.
RPGs are a vast medium, and though I don't care much for D&D (in any of its incarnations), it does fulfill a valid role and should be respected as such. I know of several fantastic players who have been introduced to the hobby through it, and it would be a considerable loss for our community if we did not have such exposition. Be kind to 4e players and they might even join your table one of these days.
Varnias Tybalt said:
No it isn't. And did you simply ignore the part where I said that I really gave credit to FFG for their original productions like Disciples of the Dark Gods and Cretures Anathema?
Minor point - Disciples of the Dark Gods was not an FFG production - the manuscript entered playtesting the same day that BI announced that they were closing.
N0-1_H3r3 said:
Varnias Tybalt said:
No it isn't. And did you simply ignore the part where I said that I really gave credit to FFG for their original productions like Disciples of the Dark Gods and Cretures Anathema?
Minor point - Disciples of the Dark Gods was not an FFG production - the manuscript entered playtesting the same day that BI announced that they were closing.
By that reasoning, the award that went to Dark Heresy core rulebook for best interior art shouldn't be considered to be FFG's achievement either, but Black Industries...
Varnias Tybalt said:
N0-1_H3r3 said:
Varnias Tybalt said:
No it isn't. And did you simply ignore the part where I said that I really gave credit to FFG for their original productions like Disciples of the Dark Gods and Cretures Anathema?
Minor point - Disciples of the Dark Gods was not an FFG production - the manuscript entered playtesting the same day that BI announced that they were closing.
By that reasoning, the award that went to Dark Heresy core rulebook for best interior art shouldn't be considered to be FFG's achievement either, but Black Industries...
Actualy, if you really want to be that fair, then the award for the art should go to GW ;-)
Varnias Tybalt said:
By that reasoning, the award that went to Dark Heresy core rulebook for best interior art shouldn't be considered to be FFG's achievement either, but Black Industries...
Exactly. That's why I congratulated BI on their three awards and FFG on their one. Creatures Anathema was the first wholly FFG-created book for Dark Heresy. Even if you're being very generous, FFG didn't produce any of the DH interior art. they didn't even choose it, they just replaced existing art with higher-quality colour versions of the same artwork.
Higher-quality, coloured versions commissioned, paid for and provided by Black Industries
Congrats FFG!
One of the great things about DH, is not only is the game fun to play, but the books are fun to read. I appreciate that. As a GM I get to read them all, yea!
I play that other game in it's current edition, and have fun as a player. But reading those books is mind-numbing.
Congratulations to all involved! I did my part with the voting!
/M
Wow, didn't know Dark Heresy was so popular, but that's good news too! Gratz FFG! 
MILLANDSON said:
TheFlatline said:
It's what made New World of Darkness fall flat on it's face when I read through the books and tried to play the games. There is no "setting", no greater world at large. They leave it up to the storyteller, which is all well and good, but charging a premium (40 bucks per core book, plus 30 or so for the blue rules book) for a game devoid of setting because the developers are so afraid of metaplot is absurd and rather insulting.
Erm.... what? There is tonnes of setting in each nWoD book, half of each book (Vampire, Werewolf, etc) is filled with the setting. No, there's no overarching plot, because the oWoD shoved it down people's throats, and if you wanted to use stuff from the next book you had to add the part of the metaplot introduced in that book, otherwise it made no sense.
Plus, nWoD is set in the modern world, you don't really need anything in the book to describe it to you, you're in it. All they need to do is cover the setting for each supernatural in their own book, which they do, and very well.
So please, don't talk rubbish.
Not really. You had, for example, in the Vampire core book, two sources of strife. You had XIII, and you had other vampires in your city. They emphasized strongly that every city is an island, and they specifically said that their intent was to keep vampires from traveling, even in the modern age. The metaplot may have been a little heavy handed in the old game (which I ignored completely for anything other than plot seeds), but for conflict you had elders, Sabbat vs Camarilla, the black hand inside the sabbat (which was mentioned I believe in the core), bali (granted, you had to buy a splat book for them, so let's not count them), other vampires in your city, the uppers in your organization (archons, bishops, justicars, etc etc...), independents, the Giovanni, lupines (not werewolves, but the Vampire version of werewolves), and a few others I'm sure I'm forgetting.
Now, I know I could import most of that, and I know the splat books expand that more, but when I first started with nWOD, all the splat books were hardcover, and cost 30-35 bucks a piece to complete what felt like an incomplete game. Everyone I've spoken to who has run nWOD praises the rules, and is at best could take or leave the setting. Most of the players I've talked to are skewed simillarly, although there are a few hardcore White Wolf fans that love the new settings.
Compare that to Dark Heresy, which offered in the core book three completely differing styles of play depending on which ordos you belonged to, two or three wildly conflicting moods/themes depending on if the party was radical or puritanical or somewhere in the middle, a focus either on extremely lethal combat or investigation, and you start to see the sheer vastness that DH can portray in a game. All from the core book that was 10 dollars cheaper than the WoD blue & red book.
That being said, nWoD core (the blue mortal book) is ironically *the* most intriguing of all the game lines they've released so far, IMHO.
In Vampire: The Requiem (for sake of example), you have the stife between each of the covenents, between the main clans/covenents and VII, hunters, other supernaturals, Beliel's Brood, and several others. There are also 6 different groups (at least) you can be a member of, and each one has a different philisophical belief and a different style of play, so I don't get your points at all, to be honest. It's all there in the book, but I guess you don't see it.
But anyway, the DH forum isn't suitable for this discussion, so we should leave it, especially since this is very off topic.
DH should have gotten gold. As a proud player of WotC material for nearly a decade I sadly have to say that the current edition is under par in quality when compared to DH. Its not just the mechanics but also the material of the books as my 4E is already falling apart.