Best Production Values: Gold for Dark Heresy Core

Best Interior Art: Gold for Dark Heresy Core (which shows that a lot of roleplayers have apparently not had much exposure to GW's other games. )

Best Monster or Adversary Book: Silver for Creatures Anathema

Best Game: Silver for Dark Heresy (beat out by D&D 4th - which is nothing to be ashamed of.)

Cheers Everybody - thanks for voting!

Isn't DnD 4th that stinky World of Warcraft-esque excuse of an RPG?

Varnias Tybalt said:

Yes... Yes it is.

And I must admit you put it much more diplomatically than I think I am capable of.

Wait... DnD 4th is supposed to be an RPG???

Which version was being judged, the Black Industries one of the FFG one (which, IIRC, has different versions of some interior artwork)?

Anyway, Congrats to Black Industries for their two golds and a silver, and congrats to FFG for their Silver. Incidentally, can we grow up on the whole D&D4 thing? Even if it is just a tabletop version of WoW, guess what - WoW's an RPG too.

The FFG hardcover versions were, in fact, the editions judged for the ENnies.

congrats FFG now who wants to go on a witch hunt for the heresy that is edition 4

3.5 FOR LIFE!!!

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

Well, if you want to see my less diplomatic side then I guess I should tell you that I have always thought that DnD as Wizards of the Coast has released it has always been somewhat of a feeble attempt at making an MMORPG into a traditional Pen and Paper RPG (yes this includes 3.0 and 3.5 editions as well).

Anyone feel like throwing rocks at me now?

LuciusT said:

I think it should aptly be called a "KSTTLGUYCSG" instead, which translates into:

"Kill Stuff, Take Their Lewtz and Grind Up Your Character's Stats Game"

OK, OK... I should say congratulations FFG/BI for the Ennie win. It shows that there is a lot of popular support for the game.

(... won't say anything else about DnD... won't, won't won't...)

LuciusT said:

It's okay Lucius. We've got an elephant in the room, and it's name is "DnD 4th". You can't just ignore an elephant in the room now can you? Because elephants are big, and they have tusks, and trunks and all sort freakish things on them.

Meltagun is ultimate answer for all elephants!

Congratulations for everybody in FFG, BI and all who contribute towards the grimadark rpg version of our beloved Warhammer 40 000:)

It is also worth pointing out that the best monster/adversary category gold also went to a D&D product. That silver was particularly exciting not just because of the competition, but because Creatures Anathema was the first book produced solely by FFG.

I think it's a bit poor taste to be talking about Dungeons & Dragons the way you are in this thread. It's a competitor's product, sure, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have any redeeming values. If you think the FFG staff only plays games that they make, then you're deluding yourself.

Now, I consider the d% system that Dark Heresy uses to be a much more stream-lined one than the d20 system that D&D uses, but you have to stand back and look at what sort of game each system is trying to encourage. They're vastly different products, and I speak from personal experience when I say that you can enjoy playing both.

I was, and in a way still am (a "only use out of print material sort of way) a player of Dungeons and Dragons, so feel entirely within my rights to complain about all the attrocities which have been done to it since the "player's option" books emerged and on out to the current mmogostomy which was perfomed in the creation of 4$ edition. At this point I don't see why they even bother doing anything making board games ... they keep getting closer with every transformation.

Congrats FFG, you did well!

DarkPrimus said:

D&D has it's place... And sure I'll play D&D when the nostalgic bug takes me. But giving it a gold for best game is a bit like saying Lord of the Rings is the best in MODERN sci fi and fantasy.

MILLANDSON said:

I could not have put it better myself!

And as to this D&D debate - it was all downhill after AD&D

DW

Traveller61 said:

Nah... 3, and to a lesser extent, 3.5, streamlined and standardized the hell out of D&D. AD&D was a cobbled together collection of various rules in various scenarios. It was a game, but it didn't have a ruleset as it were.

D&D 3rd was a game/setting, but it also had a ruleset. D20. And a ruleset was sorely needed.

4th has gone on to needlessly complicate things. I saw a table of people playing 4th, and it looked like they were playing a card game, since they had so many piecemeal powers. There was no rules system tieing it all together, no reference that you could start from and build up your character, only power cards or brute memorization. It was like they decided that the worst part of being a mage (that stupid-long spell list you end up having and having to reference constantly) was so fricken awesome that EVERYONE should get to deal with that kind of paperwork, and get to deal with it EVERY ENCOUNTER instead of once a day.

I actually own D&D 4th. I bought the slipcase, read it, and put it back on the shelf. It's in storage right now, the only RPG game I own (and I own some stinkers) to end up in storage. It is obvious that regardless of what came out, or how revolutionary it was, D&D4th is going to take the gold. That DH and FFG/BL did so well is a testament to how electrifying Dark Heresy is. It is literally the first game that has excited the group that I play with since... well since 3rd came out and we did the mother of all dungeon crawls.

no awards for Disciples of the Dark Gods?

the book which, for its mood and atmosphere and sheer tantalizing mysteries is one of the best supplements for any rpg I ever read?

oh and yes D&D 4th edition is a poor excuse for a rpg and I fear for what's being done to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay as well

Just want to congratulate FFG on their awards. DH has always been an impressive looking line, and its about time someone recognized the work they are doing.

TheFlatline said:

I hate to be that kind of bastard here, but I think that much of Dark Heresy's playvalue stems from the fluff it is based upon (meaning the creations of Games Workshop and the Black Library) rather than the game alone. Still BI and FFG deserve all credit for getting a W40K RPG off the ground in the first place, but because of the pre-created fluff making up such a substantial part of why the game is good, I really like the fact that FFG's original creations (like much of what's written in Disciples of the Dark Gods and Creatures Anathema) hold such great, top-notch quality.

Varnias Tybalt said:

That's like saying that Call of Cthulhu's greatness stems entirely from the setting and fluff and shouldn't be heaped with accolades since it's based on century old stories.

Of course it does. That is what makes a game great, perhaps despite a crappy rules system in some cases. It's what made New World of Darkness fall flat on it's face when I read through the books and tried to play the games. There is no "setting", no greater world at large. They leave it up to the storyteller, which is all well and good, but charging a premium (40 bucks per core book, plus 30 or so for the blue rules book) for a game devoid of setting because the developers are so afraid of metaplot is absurd and rather insulting. The old World of Darkness games, as a whole, were "Great" games. nWoD isn't. Dark Heresy is a Great game, and I'd go so far as to say the nWoD ruleset is superior to DH in it's balance, mechanics, and elegance. But a good rules set doesn't make a classic game. My group enjoys playing nWoD since we have a good GM, but they're eager and excited to be in Dark Heresy.

TheFlatline said:

No it isn't. And did you simply ignore the part where I said that I really gave credit to FFG for their original productions like Disciples of the Dark Gods and Cretures Anathema?

The Dark Heresy Core rulebook isn't much more than "40K made into an RPG". Sort of like what the first edition of Call of Cthulhu was just: "lovecraftian stories made into an RPG". But that's what you get with licenseing and building something on someone elses ideas. It's expected and nothing I look down upon. But the fact still stands that the things that truly defines how great a job a licenseholder has done is the original productions. Where they might have borrowed a setting from someone else, the final rite of passage comes with what they create of their own WITHIN that borrowed setting.

And FFG has, in my opinion, passed that rite of passage with flying colours. And then im not talking about rules (because they could sure as hell have been done better), but more in the line of pre-made adventures and lore concerning the Calixis sector and it's inhabitants (which were, quite frankly, not that much extrapolated upon in the Core Rulebook).

Now do I have to clarify my standpoint even further, or can you see that im not bantering at FFG but praising them here? (despite the flaws in their product)

Oh and by the way, I don't really agree with you that a good set of rules couldn't make a classic game. Luckily "Noir" is beyond good in all the other aspects as well, but due to the rules alone I would've considered it a classic anyway (and I should tell you that this rulesystem has been considered to be an IMPROVEMENT of nWoD's rules by many ).

But sadly, it's only been released in swedish so far.

TheFlatline said:

Erm.... what? There is tonnes of setting in each nWoD book, half of each book (Vampire, Werewolf, etc) is filled with the setting. No, there's no overarching plot, because the oWoD shoved it down people's throats, and if you wanted to use stuff from the next book you had to add the part of the metaplot introduced in that book, otherwise it made no sense.

Plus, nWoD is set in the modern world, you don't really need anything in the book to describe it to you, you're in it. All they need to do is cover the setting for each supernatural in their own book, which they do, and very well.

So please, don't talk rubbish.