With all the crazy action economy FCS Predator Gunner shenanigans, these things tend to blank out and just lose 4 health.

Considering that you can get a PtL Royal Guard for 25 points that's more resilient than that, You can't really afford that on a ship that's 1/3rd of your squad.

the PTL royal guard has far more to lose than a defender if his greens blank . At 27 points with thrusters, he'll be better off at range 3.

Defenders aren't b-wings, but the six health does provide a nice one-turn buffer against RNGesus

If it just had green anywhere but straight!

EXACTLY!

Its one banks really should be green. I might even forgive the ridiculous 2 red turn if this was true!

Heck... there's an idea for a fix. Free title: All 1 maneuvers are green.

Oh jeepers, you really do not want a green 1 hard on that ship, that would be insane.

It would still be overcosted.

There is currently no ship in existence with a green 1 hard (even with r2 astro)

Its impossible to gauge the value of giving the defender yet another unique maneuver

Not that I'd mind. I love flying defenders and a nonred hard turn would make it even more fun

The white hard 3 is offended.

The white hard 3 needs to slim down and it knows it

(I do end up using it a lot to enter and lap around obstructed areas)

Once I have the Raider in my hands, the Tie Defender is going to be a permanent display on my desk.

So let's look at what makes the Defender then:

1) Okay, it has a really cool statline. 3 attack, 3 agility, 3 hull and 3 shields is actually pretty insane. Problem is there's not a whole lot you can do with it

2) Since Scum hit, there's a LOT of options here; Mangler, Ion, Auto, HLC, Flechette... These upgrades can get pricy, on top of an already pricy ship

3) Ordinance needs love, which doesn't help the Defender at all since it means this slot doesn't really do anything aside from maybe PRockets (which are right at home on a Defender!)

4) White K Turn. While this sounds fantastic... it becomes insanely predictable when you consider that in order to turn around a Defender is literally going to do 1 of 3 things: 3-Sharp left, 3-Sharp right, 4-K. If it tries to do any other turns, it's stressing itself, which leads to...

5) Straight ahead greens. This wouldn't be so bad if the 1s and/or 2s weren't red, but since they are, your 30 point TIE Defender can't keep pace with a 12 point TIE fighter that has the choice to do back-to-back 1 sharps to turn around.

6) While Tankier than most other TIEs, it can't do the one generic defensive action: Evade. While you can argue that Focuses are better, sometimes you just want that 1 evade token. This guy can't do that.

7) Target Locks are great... when you have the availability to spend an action on them. Because of the deplorable turning, you're either going to get blocked and denied an action, or you're going to do a stress move and not get an action (then waste a turn flying in a straight line to fix that)

8) 30 points originally didn't sound that bad. When you considered the white K turn, the statline, etc.. But given that the Defender has so many glaring weaknesses that come up directly from its "strengths", it seems like it could use a price drop.

9) Both Rex and Vessery have terrible abilities on their own. Rex basically needs a Decimator with Fleet Officer to use his ability more than once per game, and Vessery literally needs other ships to maintain target locks to use his. Target locks being something that Imperial ships don't tend to hold on to for very long, if they're even able to acquire one. That said, if you can pull off their abilities they wreck face.

All that said, I still love my Defenders.

Once I have the Raider in my hands, the Tie Defender is going to be a permanent display on my desk.

you wouldn't deny Vessery the chance to play with ATC Advances, would you ?

(not to mention the two ships aren't even close to similar in application, the advance having no white 4k nor cannon slot and the defender not having a system slot nor a reasonable price tag)

While I agree that the 3 hard turn can be predictable and not difficult to block (if you have blockers and are in a spot to use them). The 4 K-turn can be predictable, as well, but as stated, it isn't always a bad move to do it...even if expected. It's harder to block and if someone else goes for a K-turn, they will be stressed while you are not. Also, I've found that you can really mess with people by NOT picking the 3 turn or the K-turn. I've found the 1 bank to be really great when people think you are going to do one of the other moves. It means you slow roll forward and can usually barrel roll to a better spot. It's especially good if they think you are going to K-turn, but end up just moving a bit. You usually end up in a great spot to fire on whoever was sent to fire on you. Part of the key to using the Defender is that you need to keep them guessing.

Oh, and I've seen people put Stealth Device on the Defender for good effect.

Once I have the Raider in my hands, the Tie Defender is going to be a permanent display on my desk.

you wouldn't deny Vessery the chance to play with ATC Advances, would you ?

(not to mention the two ships aren't even close to similar in application, the advance having no white 4k nor cannon slot and the defender not having a system slot nor a reasonable price tag)

The Advanced will be the better overall fighter. Yes.. Vessery will see play. Thats it.

There has literally only been a few times when I've been using a defender where my opponent didn't have to make the difficult guess of whether my Defender was going to 4k or 2 forward. And that's the guess between the two best moves, failing to consider all the other options (including 1-2 hard turns, what, never taken a stress to gain a positional advantage and/or surprise drop on someone? What game have you been playing?)

and yeah, the best option is to block both but that's rarely possible. I don't think it's fair to say the defender is easier to block simply because it has quite possibly the best move in the game in the 4k. only an idiot wouldn't consider the positional layout of the board and likelihood of blocking at any given point when dialing in. I'd argue in fact that I can telegraph and predict my opponents moves MORE because I know they fear the White 4k and will probably change the whole way they play and move because of it.

The defender has an ability that no one seems to realise or mention when discussing it that no other small base imperial ship has; the ability to survive a round of concentrated fire. Whether this is due to a mistake in the approach, and wrong guess, or ( more likely as you become familiar with the ship) a calculated decision to draw fire or calculated risk to get into a better position it's something no other ship in our arsenal can do.

The defender shouldn't be flown like a b-wing. It's HP's aren't there to be abused, they're the assurance for when those fickle green dice we all moan about do fail you. The defender is capable of being as evasive as an interceptor, albeit in a differnt way by utilising range 3 with its cannons and slow banks, and at close range with the 4k and barrel rolls.

The defender is a BEAST. It's a difficult beast to tame, granted, as it requires a completely unique playstyle, but it will deffinately form the core of my regionals list given the success it's given me throughout the store championship season

Oh, and I've seen people put Stealth Device on the Defender for good effect.

Oh, and I've seen people put Stealth Device on the Defender for good effect.

I've actually been running Vessery recently with Stealth Device and Lone Wolf. I just love the build as a flanker. Early on Lone Wolf gives a slight offensive boost that you might not yet have from a target lock, and it is defensively insane. 2-dice stuff has to just ignore you for fear of wasting their shots. 3 dice stuff still often will take 3-4 shots to break through the SD. Even after that's done, you still have 3 greens with a re-roll, which isn't that far off of a cloaked Phantom. The great thing is that once you have a friendly Target Lock up, there's not as much downside to holding a Focus to defend your Stealth Device. When someone can land 4 hits on you and it's not a forgone conclusion that you lose the Stealth Device, and you have 6 HP to burn afterwards, it's a pretty decent use for the card.

Oh, and I've seen people put Stealth Device on the Defender for good effect.

spending points on green dice before cannons!?

I consider the cost of upgrading a base 3 Attack ship with a Heavy Laser Cannon a bit too much to swallow. It is 1 Attack increase for 7 points. I would rather spend the points on a Stealth Device because it is so hard to get a good defense against turrets in this game.

If it just had green anywhere but straight!

EXACTLY!

Its one banks really should be green. I might even forgive the ridiculous 2 red turn if this was true!

Heck... there's an idea for a fix. Free title: All 1 maneuvers are green.

Oh jeepers, you really do not want a green 1 hard on that ship, that would be insane.

For 30 base points!? Yes I do! Let's face it, white 1 turns would not justify a 30 point base ship. Green ones and an EPT slot for all Defenders would give this ship a new lease on life.

I consider the cost of upgrading a base 3 Attack ship with a Heavy Laser Cannon a bit too much to swallow. It is 1 Attack increase for 7 points. I would rather spend the points on a Stealth Device because it is so hard to get a good defense against turrets in this game.

I like both! I really do consider a cannon upgrade mandatory when I run Defenders. 1 Attack is totally worth 7 points to me. Throw in the denial of a range 3 defense bonus and its even better. Unmodified, an HLC is does slightly less average hits than 3 attack with a Focus (2 vs 2.25), throw in a re-roll from Predator or Lone Wolf, and it gets better. That's like a free action at worst, and a big damage spike at best. AGI 3 stuff without any tokens for Defense is averaging 1.125 Evades per turn. A 3 dice attack with a Focus is expecting 2.25 hits, so you're averaging about a damage per turn. A 4 dice attack is expecting 3 hits with a Focus, a bit shy of double the net damage once green rolls are taken into account. If the target has a Focus or Evade or an extra Agility, etc., the disparity between 3 and 4 attack dice is even greater, throw in a Range 3 defense bonus against the Primary and the difference is even bigger. The only way I wouldn't consider the HLC worth it is if I though my ship was going to spend a large portion of its life at Range 1, which mine rarely do. This isn't to say that the other cannons aren't good, or that you should always take a cannon no matter what, but I consider 7 points a good investment for the HLC.

Just give them coaxial ion cannons. Mod, 0 points, if the target is hit, add ion token. Problem solved, Defenders are good.

Just give them coaxial ion cannons. Mod, 0 points, if the target is hit, add ion token. Problem solved, Defenders are good.

I really love this fix.

I consider the cost of upgrading a base 3 Attack ship with a Heavy Laser Cannon a bit too much to swallow. It is 1 Attack increase for 7 points. I would rather spend the points on a Stealth Device because it is so hard to get a good defense against turrets in this game.

It's not just one more attack it's removal of the bonus at range three, it's having four attacks at all ranges.

Look at all of this new ground being covered. LOOK AT IT.

what i think should have been.... this is more lore based than anything.

1.Should have boost

2.The PS1 and PS3 should instead be PS2 and PS4

3.The PS4 should have an elite pilot skill, possibly the PS2 also

4.A green 3 bank turn

This is all based on the lore of it being a Space-Superiority Fighter and the fact that only the most elite pilots got to fly them.

Just my opinion.

what i think should have been.... this is more lore based than anything.

1.Should have boost

2.The PS1 and PS3 should instead be PS2 and PS4

3.The PS4 should have an elite pilot skill, possibly the PS2 also

4.A green 3 bank turn

This is all based on the lore of it being a Space-Superiority Fighter and the fact that only the most elite pilots got to fly them.

Just my opinion.

**** it green 3 hard turn.

what i think should have been.... this is more lore based than anything.

1.Should have boost

2.The PS1 and PS3 should instead be PS2 and PS4

3.The PS4 should have an elite pilot skill, possibly the PS2 also

4.A green 3 bank turn

This is all based on the lore of it being a Space-Superiority Fighter and the fact that only the most elite pilots got to fly them.

Just my opinion.

**** it green 3 hard turn.

I get it, it will make them very OP, and yes I am a little biased as the Defender is one of my favorite ships. In terms of gameplay though, I would want just one of my suggestions to be there. Just to justify the cost of the lil devils in standard games. The PS2 and PS4 with the elite skill would be my preferred as I don't like the unique pilot abilities. Like I said it's just my opinion based on lore and to justify the points cost.