Varnias Tybalt said:

The lizardman-illithid would probably be a result of the illithid breeding process, which involves implanting an illithid larva into the brain of a host. The larva take over the body, which slowly transforms into an illithid. Technically all illithids are 'bastards', a bonding of illithid and another species.

As for the other races (half-elf, half-orc etc), why not?

macd21 said:

Because it's too reminiscent of bestiality. Orcs and Elves have always been portrayed as being way too different from humans, and frankly I think they passed the "race" barrier a long time ago. They seem to be more like different species rather than different races, and if pandas and kangaroos can't have children with eachother, then I don't see why Orks and Humans or Elves and Humans should be able to. It just doesn't make sense.

Perhaps I have been damaged by the Imperium of Man line of thought? Where previously considered "races" from fantasy have become "alien species" instead.

Although you should know that I am way more lenient towards half-elf, half-orc type of "races". It's just that DnD have proved taken the "half-something" concept to an absurd degree, where you have characters who are the bastard offpsrings of dragons, vampires, ilithids, Drow's, thirty kinds of elves and a daemon or two all combined into one character.

Not only does the concept come off as incredibly cheesy (smells like someone is trying to powergame the respective race abilities), but just try to imagine the... "family" of such a character. *the horror... The IMPLAUSIBLE horror!*

Because it's too reminiscent of bestiality.

So? Check out some of the stuff the Lunars get up to in Exalted (or at least 1ed, I think they cut down on that sort of thing in 2ed). Though it's kinda beside the point, the mating of sentient species doesn't really qualify as bestiality.

Orcs and Elves have always been portrayed as being way too different from humans, and frankly I think they passed the "race" barrier a long time ago. They seem to be more like different species rather than different races, and if pandas and kangaroos can't have children with eachother, then I don't see why Orks and Humans or Elves and Humans should be able to. It just doesn't make sense.

Fantasy settings don't operate under scientific rules. There are no species barriers unless the author wants there to be. Half-elves and half-orcs have long been fantasy staples. In a world of magic it isn't all that unusual.

Although you should know that I am way more lenient towards half-elf, half-orc type of "races". It's just that DnD have proved taken the "half-something" concept to an absurd degree, where you have characters who are the bastard offpsrings of dragons, vampires, ilithids, Drow's, thirty kinds of elves and a daemon or two all combined into one character.

Not only does the concept come off as incredibly cheesy (smells like someone is trying to powergame the respective race abilities), but just try to imagine the... "family" of such a character. *the horror... The IMPLAUSIBLE horror!*

It's just a matter of setting preferences. DnD tends to use High Fantasy settings. Worlds with lots of races that intermingle freely. A setting where half-breeds are possible has a different feel to it than a world where it is not. Which you prefer depends on your own taste, but DnD tends to go for more 'cosmopolitan' settings. Obviously this is very different from the grim and gritty feel of Warhammer, but it's not better or worse - again, just a matter of different preferences.

macd21 said:

Yes, but that's a very "Deus Ex Machina" explaination, don't you agree? ("In a world of magic, EVERYTHING's possible... Because there is MAGIC!")

It's like, just because there's magic, it's like tha audience is supposed to automatically have the hugest suspension of disbelief ever. Now while I might not have scientifically sound explainations to exactly every aspect of a fantasy setting, I do like to see it making at least a bit of sense.

The same goes for science-fiction and space opera settings. Which is why I like Alien, Starship Troopers and Warhammer 40.000, but I dislike Star Wars and Star Trek (although the first three certainly have a lot of flaws, must of the occurences does at least make some sense in contrast with the latter). And indeed, some fantasy settings are created by authors who go into great detail in giving explainations to different races being able to breed with eachother. But most doesn't. And if you ever question it, the only real "argument" against the question is always a Deus Ex Machina assumption like: "Well, it's a world of magic. Anything's possible..."

But okay, I'll swallow it for a while. It's a world of magic. How does said magic influence the biology of these species who are able to breed with eachother? Was there once a wizard or God who gave them the ability to do this through magical means? Or do they both originate from roughly the same species of animals from an age long since past, and because of that have compatible biology with eachother?

I mean, if you're gonna blame it on the existence of magic, then it would be nice to see a sort of correlation between said magic and the fact that vastly different species can breed with eachother. Right?

Most of the time, there is no such questions asked and no similar answers given. There just are elves and humans, they seem very much like different species, but for some illogical reason they can breed with eachother.

Then there's the other strange aspect that while humans are never particularly alike in behaviour or thought (most racist have tried to prove that your ethinicity shows guidlines inmeasure of intelligence and manner, but their "science" has never been very respectable), Elves, Orcs and Dwarves always seem to be inherently stereotypical no matter which author writing about them. It's like Orcs are biologically built to be brutish and aggressive in behaviour and Dwarves always being grumpy and heightcomepnsatingly proud of themselves. And then there's the elves, which I prefer not bringing up why I dislike them because this rant has been going on long enough. But my point is that for some reason humans seem to always be the epitome of diversity (both in reality and in fantasy settings) but other sentient species aren't. You'd think that the super humanly intellectual and emotional elves should show signs of equally inhuman diversity in lines of thought and behaviour, but that's rarely the case. Although sometimes you get different flavours of elf (Dark Elf, Tree Elf, Wood Elf, Night Elf, High Elf, Sugarcoated Gingerbread elf etc. etc.) they are similar in archetypical behaviour (Dark Elves always tend to be inherently depraved or evil in some way, while Wood Elves/Tree Elves/Whatever alwasy tend to be nature loving greenpeace activists with bows and arrows etc.)

You see what I mean when I ask for fiction that although might be fantastical, it does at least make some sense? To me that's what decides whether a piece of fiction is good or not. Good fantasy or science fiction is able to pull off unrealistic and fantastical concepts, but still somehow manage to make sense and instill the illusion of it all being very real. Bad fantasy or sci-fi settings have just tried to make a point of including all manner of "wierdness" in order to blatantly show that it is a fantasy or sci-fi setting (like fantasy having elves, orks and dragons, while science fiction have space ships, aliens and laser pistols) but failing to make sense.

I guess that the imagination of some authors can be a bit over-the-top fantastic, but still leave very little room for questions like: "Why?"

You know what I mean?

Oh well, let's get back to topic. Sorry for the de-railing.

//Varnias Tybalt - who hopefully didn't come across as that guy who questions why sound can be heard in space in some sci-fi settings, although he did appriciate that the television series Firefly actually gave that fact a consideration when showing their space scenes.

On the subject of the books, the cards and stuff in the box makes a big difference.

In D&D 4th there's lots of page flipping (when using skills and leveling). For WFRP3 most of that information is on cards (skills and character classes). From the looks of it, the core box has everything you need for 4 people to play. I doubt FFG recommends it (heh), but 1 box would be fine for a typical group. They all could chip in on it if they wanted. For D&D 4th, you'd need at least a GM set (all 3 books) and 1 other players handbook for 4 people. So, they are pretty close to the same price.

Yes, but that's a very "Deus Ex Machina" explaination, don't you agree? ("In a world of magic, EVERYTHING's possible... Because there is MAGIC!")