Priests of Tomb Kings or rather Nehekhara priests. They invented "immortality". The reason it didn't work for the Tomb Kings themselves were that they weren't priests themselves. (If I remember correct)

Cynical Cat, you're going in a loop. The texts you refer to are "persons" in-game. This has been said quite many times. The very reason GW uses these in-game persons to explain a lot of things is, that if they need to change something to suit there next version or new system they can say that "Oh, that was just a misguided view of one person." They do that. A lot. It's their game. It's their fantasy world.

Also, we are talking about magic that derives from Chaos. I find the current form of magic much too lawful for my taste. I see no reason why a priest couldnt be as powerful or even more powerful than a wizard. It's just another form of Chaos!

(Ah, I think I hear the Witch Hunters on my door, brb...)

Emirikol said:

Ugh, no offence but I hate difficulty ratings. The world just isn't that black and white and it's hardly layed out in a nice XP progression path where you only encounter level 3 mooks AFTER you've encountered the level 2 ones.

It gets into the territory of the ENCOUNTER which bores me to tears. It takes emphasis away from the world and focuses on abstractions within the world. The world isn't a railroad beaded with encounter train stations.

The idea that players only ever run into finely tailored ENCOUNTERS with a precisely gauged difficulty is just abhorent to me. It abstractifies what should be a more organic experience.

Hellebore

Cynical Cat said:

Teclis believes that human priests are just aethyrically sensitive humans who subconsciously cast spells. This ignores the fact that a) the vast majority of priests aren't aethyrically sensitive and b) they don't suffer from Tzeentch's curse. Their spells also combine the different colours of magic in ways that humans shouldn't be capable of.

Cynical Cat said:

The theory that the Gods cast the spells is Volans theory. You are now attempting to ignore the fact that the canon information indicates that priest spells are invoked by the gods at the request of the priests, that priests don't cast rote learned rituals (in fact, they don't need to 'learn' their spells at all) and that priest spells are just as powerful - sometimes moreso - than wizard ones.

Tome of Salvation p214 under the heading: Magic Sense

"Regardless of what the Elves may teach, percieving Divine Magic with the Magic Sense skill shows it to be very different from Arcane Magic. When casting spells, wizards draw upon the Winds of Magic and channel them into effect. This can be percieved with the Magic Sense as the flows of magic gather, siphon, then release towards the target. Divine Magic, on the other hand, varies massively in it's appearence. Sometimes a miricle is blinding for onlookers with Magic Sense, as the appropriate God or perhaps one of his servants appears to manifest in the local Aethyr; other times, the effects are barely perceptible, with nothing more than a faint, holy light surrounding the chanting priest."

macd21 said:

Volans never says that. Produce the quote that says otherwise.

I've produced quotes and page numbers that clerical spells are rote learned rituals. Produce something that says otherwise.

Produce any evidence that priests don't learn spells. It's no where in the fluff and directly contradicted by both game mechanics and Teclis's quote.

A powerful priest is more powerful than a weak wizard. That is consistent with the Warhammer world and does nothing to invalidate my points.

This thread is also starting to de-rail, from friendly banter and discussion to ad-hominem attacks and one-upsmanship.

Please re-invest your time and energy to on-topic conversations.

On to the subject of muations (it was on my list after all)... does anyone think that the new edtion will have muations in the corebook? It dosen't look like they will since the faq didn't list mutation cards as being in the core set. Could they be in a chaos supplement?

lordsneek said:

I doubt they'll have game mechanics for more than a few mutations in the core book and leave an exhaustive list for a future supplement.

lordsneek said:

Omigosh they HAVE to include them.

...or maybe I'll just dust off my REEEEALLY old Realms of Chaos book (Slaves to Darkness) and use the d1000 (yes, one thousand) mutation chart.

Crown of thumbs here I come!

Necrozius said:

How can there be charts if there is no numbered dice. Mutations will be on cards, just like this "blind" effect in the video. Which means there wont be as multiple and wild mutations as in Tome of Corruption for example.

Necrozius said:

I didn't say they had to include them I am simply saying that I would like to have them because WFRP core book for 2nd edtion only had a d100 table with only 10 mutations. I don't have Slaves of Darkness (though it does sound cool). I just have the 2nd edtion core book and Children of the Horned Rat (because skaven are awesome ).

Oh, and the Tome of Corruption version has d1000 chart. Also many of the mutations have sub-charts to make them even more different. It is hard to get exactly the same mutation twice. Something I fear the new system cant accomplish.

The Slaves to Darkness Table is essentially repeated with 2nd edition game mechanics in the Tome of Corruption.

ymrar said:

I agree it would be hard for the 3rd edtion to beat a d1000 chart but with enough cards and expansions it might surpass tome of corruption. That is why I like the cards. They can make an expandable table (like Jay said in the video). Though if we are lucky we might get more then 50 mutations when the chaos supplement rolls around.

You never know the Chaos Supplement (if there is one) may come with 1000 Mutation Cards.

Foolishboy said:

I don't think so. That would be almost unmanagable and kind of hard to put in a deck. I think I heard somewhere the Tome of Corruption had 170 muatations (or somehwere near that number).

Although a deck over ~80 cards becomes (specially with sleeves) unmanagable. At least you have to shuffle in parts and the deck will very easily fall over. There is physical limit how much you can handle in a card deck.

170 sounds about right. Each mutation wasn't a 1/1000 chance. Some like beast headed or growing horns, for example, were fairly common.

Foolishboy said:

Well, you really don't need it. You could have around 100 cards, each with two or three options and that would give you a lot of possibilities. Also, most mutations in the Tome of Corruption were cosmetic or changed only your attributes, so you really don't need cards for those, meaning you could have a table with 1000 mutations but only 100-200 needing cards, for the rest you would just update your stats, same way you did with 2nd edition.

You can't really have tables without numerical dice unless FFG use a combination of symbols as opposed to numbers.

lordsneek said:

Slaves to Darkness was from Warhammer first or second edition in the mid 80s. REALLY old school (in the days of the original Rogue Trader game).

It was very interesting, because it lists two kinds of stats for all creatures: WFRP 1st edition and Warhammer armies (both fantasy and 40k).

But yeah, Tome of Corruption is all that you need. That's a great book. I'll probably use it until something new comes out...

edit: here's the WIKI article about these books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realm_of_Chaos_%28Warhammer%29

I was wrong: they came out in '88.

Necrozius said:

Awesome, though I have to admit Slaves to Darkness is a bit before my time. I might wait and see if they come out with a chaos supplement for 3rd edtion or get Tome of Corruption. Either one will be good enough for me. I am a bit hesitant to get my hands on Tome of Corruption because I don't know if it will be compatiable with 3rd (though it would be cool for my 2nd edtion games). So I guess I will wait.

lordsneek said:

Oh Tome of Corruption is fantastic for 2nd edition. So many interesting possibilities, especially if your players want to play CHAOS characters (Norsca, Hung, and other pseudo slavic races). Super awesome, even just for the ideas.

Disciples of the Dark Gods in Dark Heresy has more IDEAS for conspiracies and sometimes more subtle fiends, but it's for another system. I'd recommend at least borrowing it from a friend, if you can (if you have a friend who has a copy, that is).