Does the OL get to force One Fist to just get one attack and that is it or is there also the 1 melee attack. What constitutes normal actions I guess is my question for One Fist to make the extra attack. Is it just any action on his turn, if he is stunned is moving a normal action?
Is One Fist attacking during a OL dark charm considered a normal action for triggering the always make one free melee attack?
aric said:
Does the OL get to force One Fist to just get one attack and that is it or is there also the 1 melee attack. What constitutes normal actions I guess is my question for One Fist to make the extra attack. Is it just any action on his turn, if he is stunned is moving a normal action?
Is One Fist attacking during a OL dark charm considered a normal action for triggering the always make one free melee attack?
One attack only from the dark charm..
The Dark Charm attack is not an action.
An Action is what the hero declares near the beginning of his turn (Battle, Advance, Run or Ready). One Fist gets to add a melee (hook) attack to whatever things he normally gets from his normal action. Thats it.
I believe there is divided opinion over whether One Fist gets his attack when stunned. When stunned a hero does not receive a full action and may not use abilities that require a declared action. One Fist gets his attack in addition to his normal action - the exact meaning of 'normal action' is unclear. My personal inclination is to allow it on the grounds that disallowing it requires a precise, limited definition of 'normal action' that we just don't have - ie making something up, whereas allowing it uses 'normal' in a more widely interpreted way. But that is definitely a personal, subjective, preference rather than a general objective rules definition.
Dark charm does not allow the OL to use the hero's special ability, only to make an attack with an equipped weapon. You may choose to allow the OL to use the hook by making a bare handed attack with One Fist (instead of any weapon he might have), that's not really clearly defined AFAIK. But he certainly cannot do both at once.
As far as the stunned thing goes, it's my understanding of the rules that Stunned makes you lose one half action from your declared action. If the half action you keep is an attack, you can include the hook as per One Fist's ability.
Steve-O said:
Dark charm does not allow the OL to use the hero's special ability, only to make an attack with an equipped weapon. You may choose to allow the OL to use the hook by making a bare handed attack with One Fist (instead of any weapon he might have), that's not really clearly defined AFAIK. But he certainly cannot do both at once.
As far as the stunned thing goes, it's my understanding of the rules that Stunned makes you lose one half action from your declared action. If the half action you keep is an attack, you can include the hook as per One Fist's ability.
Thanks for the input my group will just have to decide on how we want to handle it.
I agree with Corbon--Dark Charm is not an action, just an attack, so One Fist's ability does not apply.
Steve-O said:
Dark charm does not allow the OL to use the hero's special ability, only to make an attack with an equipped weapon. You may choose to allow the OL to use the hook by making a bare handed attack with One Fist (instead of any weapon he might have), that's not really clearly defined AFAIK. But he certainly cannot do both at once.
So you are arguing that even if the hero ability were an automatic ability applied to all attacks, such as Landrec's, that the ability is suppressed during a Dark Charm? Do you have any basis for this claim?
Steve-O said:
As far as the stunned thing goes, it's my understanding of the rules that Stunned makes you lose one half action from your declared action. If the half action you keep is an attack, you can include the hook as per One Fist's ability.
Not sure how you achieved that understanding. "If the figure was a hero, the hero does not receive a full action this turn. Instead, the hero may only move a number of spaces up to his speed or make one attack or place one order. A stunned hero cannot use any ability that requires advancing, running, battling, or readying (except for placing a hero order)." That doesn't sound at all to me like you still declare an action as normal but lose part of it, it sounds like you do something else instead of one of the four standard actions.
Regardless, why would it matter whether the half-action you kept was an attack? One Fist's ability does exactly the same thing on a Battle or a Run. It would be bizarre and arbitrary if it behaved differently on a move half-action and an attack half-action. I can see arguments for and against him using his abililty when stunned, but making it conditional on what else he does when stunned? Are you sure you're not remembering his ability wrong or something?
He may always make one Melee attack, rolling 1 Red and 1 Green die, in addition to his normal action.
I don't see where stun would explicitly prevent the extra attack, and it seems consistent with the design and spirit of the character to let him have it. As long as he gets to take a turn and isn't prevented from attacking by Sleep or some similar effect, I'd let him make the hook attack.
The word "always" is a pretty important word here.
I'm inclined to back Pinky on this. One-Fist is not going to have a heavy Two-handed Weapon, so adding the Hook seems to keep him attractive, as far as DC goes.
Antistone said:
So you are arguing that even if the hero ability were an automatic ability applied to all attacks, such as Landrec's, that the ability is suppressed during a Dark Charm? Do you have any basis for this claim?
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My basis was from the FAQ on how Dark Charm worked, but it would appear a more recent FAQ has changed the answer. From what I recall, the FAQ used to state that Dark Charm does not allow the OL to spend surges or use anything other than the damage and range result of the dice. In the current FAQ, however, this is not the case. Evidently I haven't been keeping up with the more recent errata.
The way the FAQ is currently worded it doesn't clarify the application of hero special abilities, so I guess it's up to your interpretation.
Steve-O said:
Antistone said:
Regardless, why would it matter whether the half-action you kept was an attack? One Fist's ability does exactly the same thing on a Battle or a Run. It would be bizarre and arbitrary if it behaved differently on a move half-action and an attack half-action. I can see arguments for and against him using his abililty when stunned, but making it conditional on what else he does when stunned? Are you sure you're not remembering his ability wrong or something?
I was apparently remembering his ability wrong, based on what others have posted of it since my last post. Knowing now how it is worded, I would agree that he can use it regardless while stunned.
XmenDynasty said:
I'm inclined to back Pinky on this. One-Fist is not going to have a heavy Two-handed Weapon, so adding the Hook seems to keep him attractive, as far as DC goes.
I think you'll find that Pinky was refering to the 'always' as being important in the context of One-Fist's 'normal' action - be it a full action or a stun half action.
A DC attack is not in any way an action and a DC-ed One-Fist will not have an additional hook attack as he only gets that in addition to his action. If he is not having an action, then he doesn't get it.
Steve-O said:
My basis was from the FAQ on how Dark Charm worked, but it would appear a more recent FAQ has changed the answer. From what I recall, the FAQ used to state that Dark Charm does not allow the OL to spend surges or use anything other than the damage and range result of the dice.
Really? If so, that must have been a very old FAQ; the ruling that specifically allows the overlord to spend surges has been in place at least since the Well of Darkness expansion was published (it's listed in the short FAQ at the end of the WoD manual). WoD's copyright 2006, so that's around three years.
My question about One Fist is: Does he get his two power dice when he makes the hook attack? I say yes, because it is listed as a Melee attack, and he gets 2 power dice on Melee attacks. I am new to the game I've had it one week. Wondering if anyone has an opinion on this ruling.
Terragen said:
My question about One Fist is: Does he get his two power dice when he makes the hook attack? I say yes, because it is listed as a Melee attack, and he gets 2 power dice on Melee attacks. I am new to the game I've had it one week. Wondering if anyone has an opinion on this ruling.
I believe pretty much everyone took your position last time it came up. It is specifically a melee attack, and I see no grounds in the rules for denying a hero their melee trait dice on any melee attack.
Terragen said:
My question about One Fist is: Does he get his two power dice when he makes the hook attack? I say yes, because it is listed as a Melee attack, and he gets 2 power dice on Melee attacks. I am new to the game I've had it one week. Wondering if anyone has an opinion on this ruling.
Definitely! No opinion needed, no ruling needed.. just the RAW. There's a reason he's my favorite character
Thank you for your responses! I'm glad I'm getting the rules right so far
One Fist is a beast!!
