DagobahDave said:

Yeah but the moment of critical injury or death is too late to make that decision. Hmmm...I could have my leg lopped off and bleed to death or run away...

John Tansen said:

It looks like many cards are double-sided, and are more than just for reference. It looks like each action has a 'conservative' (green) use and an 'aggressive' (red) use. The same ability can have different effects depending on how you employ it. For the Ranged Shot action card, there are four different results on one side of the card (I can't remember if it's conservative or aggressive). Presumably, the reverse side has a different list of results.

John Tansen said:

From the looks of the character sheet, advancement is going to be not unlike WFRP2, but it's hard to say. On the character sheet I think I see spaces for "Completed Career Advances" and "Next Career Advances" which looks like it's a little more sophisticated than WFRP2, since it asks you to plan your next advance.

The skills all have three check-boxes, and there are around 20 basic skills. That's identical to WFRP2, and indicates a sort of incremental advancement that we're used to.

Kriegtanzer said:

If we're lucky, it'll be this scenario:

You're hurt bad. If you don't run away now, your next hit will be a critical.

Rather than:

Critical hit! Do you want to run away instead?

Nullius said:

Well said. I'll confess to having a rather angry reaction to the presentation of this game. Now, admittedly, I'm a grognard who hangs around at Strike-to-Stun, so it's in m nature to growl at new developments, but the way this is presented it is the absolute antithesis of the direction I would hope WFRP to move toward.

But okay, it's not Warhammer Quest, I'll trust people on that. Yet, I'm still mystified that cards and kewl dice are really going to make the game better. But, far more importantly, will FFG maintain the flavor of the game?

I didn't go the seminar...I only found out about the new edition Thursday night and thought to myself why are they making a new edition to the game. There is so much more that can be detailed and explored with current rules...I looked today at the display and the mock up of the 3rd edition and without knowing any thing more about it I said to myself...no way, not at all.

I'm sorry I'm not trying to say it sucks or looks dumb but from what I did see my gut just told me no, just flat out nope not going to do it.

Take that for what it's worth fellow Old Worlder's which I admit isn't much, but after playing wfrp for a long, long time this new edition isn't anything that isn't something a person could do for themselves with some mini's and a printer.

Book flipping??? that's a major reason for the new edition at least that is what the person who started this thread mentioned several times that the new edition tries to address. This game for all its layers of complexity isn't that hard. How many times after a couple of game sessions do you need to flip through the book. Once in a while there will be the "hmmm let me check that out" but those questions can typically be resolved quickly by referring to the index and flipping to the indexed page, reading it and saying ok here's what x can do. You either memorize it or write it down on your character sheet or something similar.

There is no reason for this other than the money a new edition always brings...I hate to say it...but again it's what my gut is telling me.

That all being said it won't ruin my gaming experience or change how I live my life but nope not going to do it.

Thanks for reading.

I'm worried WFRP3's books will look like D&D4th's books. That is, a maths textbook with lots of junk that in the end allow you do to exactly the same as WFRP2nd ed's rules, but take 10x the space to tell you.

I love the style of 2nd ed's books. The rules are simple yet satisfying and the rest is background and flavour.

If 3rd ed's book design requires 4 books to explain the rules, then it will definitely not be something I will buy. The D&D books I find soul destroying trying to read, just page after page of rules and minutae. I don't want that in WFRP.

Hellebore

Doombot, since you didn't attend the seminar, is it fair to say that your opinion of the game is based only on looking at the materials?

Were you able to deduce very much about the game system? What impression did it give you? You wrote "No, no way" but could you explain why? I can't really tell what your problem with the game is just based on a gut feeling.

Hellebore said:

I can't remember where, it but was mentioned that there's very little chart-referencing at all. It's apparently all on the cards, or otherwise right in front of you.

But does that mean what's on the cards isn't in the books at all? If not, then what is in the rulebooks? From the pictures the tome of magic looked like it could be hardback, it had the spine fold (or what looked like a spin fold) on it. Unless it was a mockup.

Can anyone shed light on that? Where there mockups at Gencon or were they actual books?

I've advocated a split between background and rules for years, but I don't think it's a viable sales tactic. Basically you release a book that describes qualitatively how the world works, weapons, monsters etc and you release the quantitative rules seperately. That way the background isn't tied to the rules and it is edition proof. But that means the bg books are not resellable unlike a combined book.

So will the rulebooks be purely background with all the rules on the cards?

Hellebore

I would guess that all of the card effects are available on their own -- either in a book or in a big cheat-sheet. Pure guess, though.

And some of those "books" definitely looked like mockups. The character sheets look like laser copies. The cardstock miniatures are hand-cut. You can tell they rushed to get it together!

After GenCon I'm sure we'll see lots of good photos of the stuff they laid out.

DagobahDave said:

The card packs have a factory-sealed looked to them, but might not be. Other than that, yeah, they look like mostly mockups.

PointyEaredBastard said:

Everything sounds to me like "Lets make money! Have special dice (which are very ugly imo); split the rulebook in two, so the customers think they get more for their 100 $, and so on..." The price is much too high for a Roleplaying product.

I must agree on that, WFRP 2nd Ed is one book with every thing. And here FFG have left out a lot of stuff so they can milk the fans for even more money on the missing stuff.

That said, it seems that the game might have potential. The main problem still is the silence about the game; we still need an in depth report on playing a scenarion getting EXP and roleplaying vs. rolling. And let's face it the users have not really been involved.

DagobahDave said:

So are they getting rid of the talents or are they basing these new actions on the old talents? Or are they career specific?

Armrek said:

John Tansen said:

I don't know. I haven't seen anything that resembles a Talent from V2 yet. I'm not sure what governs the kinds of action cards are available to your character, but I'm pretty sure there's a second side to the career card that we haven't seen yet.

jadrax said:

When I read this post I had just finished criticising WFRPv2 for not having a complete Core Rulebook and hoping that WFRPv3 would be better.

The WFRPv2 Core Book did have enough information to give you a good feel for the game, but I always felt that extra supplements were required just to create a good starter pack. Having said that $100 spent on WFRPv2 books would buy several books and once you had bought the Core Rulebook you could always decide that WFRPv2 was not for you and chose not to buy anything else withouyt having wasted a lot of money.

I am feeling positive about this new edition. It is true though that we still need some more in-depth reviews as soon as possible. Still I think this could be a fun and narrative game if they make it so. I surely will give it a try when it comes out, I just love WFRP too much to pass on this. And about the price tag: Surely the 100$ is not a small ammount (especially in eastern europe) but me and my 3 buddies will probably share the costs, so that will lower it to a more friendly price level.

What a great game it is goin to be. I like all the cards, dice, hero and party sheets. I can't wait to buy it. Enough of all these old fashion RPGs.

I think this new edition looks really great!!
Love the fact that you don't need to check everything up in the book all the time ^^
A GM screen would still be nice, hope it will come near the release

Typhus said:

Look what up in the book?

Captin' said:

I have bookmarks in my V2 rulebook at pages 96 (Talents), 105 (Weapon Qualities), 126 (Actions), 134 (Critical Hits), 143 (Tzeentch's Curse Tables), 156 (Lore of Metal practiced by one of our PCs), all of which I may need to refer to in a single round. To make things easier, I've created cheat-sheets of lots of those tables so that I don't have to flip through the books.

WFRP3 seems to have taken that idea to the next logical step, maybe saving me from having to make any cheat-sheets. (But I think using the cards is going to be cooler than that because of the choice of stances.)

You mean like including a GM screen?

Captin' said:

The WFRP2 GM's screen has some of what I need, but it doesn't have full spell lists and descriptions, the full list of talents (which I refer to a lot) or Tzeentch's Curse. So the GM screen helps, but to save time and for ease of play I pieced together the other frequently-used pages and tables from different parts of the rulebook onto cheat-sheets. Otherwise I'd be flipping pages a lot.

Also, the GM's screen contains information I think the players should have access to. The actions summary on the WFRP2 character sheet doesn't really help. If you're a magic-user, you have to copy down the spell list by hand or grab one one of those nifty spell cards that some fans have put together for WFRP2. As a longtime roleplayer I'm used to doing that, but I'll be glad if I don't have to -- so long as the game still promotes great Warhammer roleplaying.

But like I wrote earlier, it's just taking the idea of reference sheets to the next step.