Gilead te tuin lothain said:

jadrax said:

Is that why they were in shrink-wrap?

ChaosChild said:

jadrax said:

Thank god for that.

PEB,

thanks for the update. Will the starter set be the only way to get ahold of the books or will they release them eash seperately?

Nico

Adding such crucial stuff as Ratcatcher (trademark of WFRP) and halflings (very important race, even if not played so often) in future expansions sound more like Living Role Playing Game to me

The lion's share of misconceptions here (if misconceptions they be)are the result of a slightly clumsy marketing scheme aimed at an extrememly conservative and particular customer base (the regular users of this web-site).

If Ross Watson has provided us with a good example of how to market a new product (I already bought the Rogue Trader : Collectors edition, and I have no idea whether the game is good at all. That's a good sales pitch), then this has demonstrated a slightly less adroit marketing scheme.

It started with that "Ratcatcher's Tale" thing, which was a fun read, but ultimately did little to support the new product and probably alienated a few readers as well. Then there was the initial add, which was so misleading and ambiguous that it looked like the majority of the Gen Con seminar was devoted to disambiguating the mistaken impressions of roughly everyone who saw the announcement blurb.

Why write such a confusing and hyperbolic announcement? The new edition was a shock, and it was followed up by the advertisement that read a bit like a government official or a snake oil salesman.

You are not building a spy-plane. The secrecy does little for your advertising campaign. And hyperbole does not impress grownups. (or those of us who ever intend to grow up, for that matter)

Again, look how Mr Watson ran his PR. He made the community feel as if they were a part of Rogue Trader's development. Hell, he even gave interviews on fan sites. He tried to keep some secrets, but no one thinks rogue trader is going to be a board game. I pre-ordered rogue trader because I feel like I know what I'm getting.

I have no idea what WHF 3rd ed even is, and its already through its development cycle. Each successive announcement just leads to more confusion amongst the fans. Marketing is intended to make people desire a product, not to frustrate and anger them.

Ultimately, though, ill-conceived marketing has no bearing on the quality of the product itslef, and I encourage everyone to withhold judgment until we know what this game actually is. It could be a bloody RPG revolution, for all we know. The good folks at FFG love the hobby as much as we do.

Give it a chance. At least until FFG can speak clearly about what this product actually is.

Thank you for the info. This is reassuring. I am reminded of the following:

1) As of yet we know too little to make an accurate judgment. The preview stuff for 4th edition D&D got me excited about it and I was more than a little disappointed by the final product.

2) An edition is judged good or bad not by how closely it hews to the previous edition's game mechanics, but by how well the mechanics work and how well the game conveys the feel of the world.

3) We do not represent WFRP fandom. We represent the small subset who play WFRP and care enough to post about it in internet forums. Among our number will be the crazies, the guys with no taste, the good gamers, the bad gamers, the brilliant, and the hard core conservatives who see any deviation from their beloved game as vile heresy. We should not consider ourselves the high priests or the senate of WFRP players nor should we think we represent more than ourselves.

4) We should lust after hard info and feedback from playtesters. They actually know what in the name of the warp we are dealing with.

Cynical Cat said:

PointyEaredBastard said:

For a game that's not supposed to be a board game, it is certainly being packaged like one.

I wanted to get into WHFRP, but I think I'll snag 2nd edition. I'm not trying to be closed-minded, but the "4-player" thing...even without running for more...smacks of "Play our way!" and I'm not into that. When a company wants to depart radically from a beloved franchise and tag a new edition with a $100.00 price tag, they'd better be sure to be more vocal about it!

TalkingMuffin said:

and you can probably find 2nd ed for way cheaper now that 3rd ed has been announced, stores should be trying to get rid of them now

Hmmm.

I'm reserving judgment, but I admit to being skeptical. For example - you say on the crit tables, you can now choose to flee instead of die. Well, who's going to choose to die? And what if fleeing makes no sense given the situations the characters are in (in other words what if it only makes sense in the game mechanics or gamist aspects)? The character just flees anyway, because that's what the rules say? That's precisely the kind of thinking that makes 4e D&D so poor, in my personal opinion. If there are even a handful of those sorts of things in place in this new Warhammer, then I think it'll be a mistake.

That said, I'm going to check it out and make my final determination after I've seen it all in detail.

PointyEaredBastard said:

Why would you need the career card next to your character sheer? Is a player limited in that they can only do what is on the card? Would not the character sheet have information from previous careers or are you stuck in a set career path?

I like what I'm hearing so far, i hope that 3E will be a worthy successor of the warhammer world.

hello

thank for your report ! I am very interesseted in the game, a longing to see it ASAP !

of course I can understand that people are anxious about the changes but we all must understand that if a new version is coming it must be different in the gameplay than the V1 or V2, otherwise, why should we purchase the new one ?

I am also very happy to hear about the followings books that will follow ! I was supecting that the halflings will come to poison ours lives with cooking and drniking ... this is great.

And I am a lot in favor with a game that make the company FFG earn money, because I want to see plenty of books after !

(I am french, in france we have lot's of editor for a very good quality of game, and i try to buy each ! )

ok ... waiting for the box !

bye

Pierre

Our group has 7 players. Therefore, we cannot play this game without spending MORE THAN the already high price tag.

I don't want to pre-judge anything, and I do realize that the existence of this version does not prevent me from playing what I already love, and does not diminish my enjoyment of 2e at all. It seems a lot of folks have a hobby of buying games, rather than playing them, and feel like they're going to be forced to purchase every new thing that comes out. I see no point to all the anger.

Let's face it, folks - this should come as a surprise to NO ONE. When I heard FFG bought the line, this was EXACTLY what I expected. Doesn't stop me from playing and enjoying the stuff I have. I have most of the 2e books, and that's more than enough for me to run games for the rest of my life. I have an IMAGINATION, which means I am not shackled by the need for a constant flood of sourcebooks.

It's well established that there is no Warhammer canon. If FFG wants to make some money, more power to them. I won't buy it, because I don't like the limit on players and I'm just not going to get into this (there's no way I'm going to keep track of all that stuff, buy a fishing tackle box or whatever). I have too many other games to play and I'm perfectly happy with the edition I have.

My snarky initial response was "no thanks, I already have Descent," heh. And I won't even look at this game or give it a chance, because I'm a blue collar guy and this is WAY beyond my price range. But let's face it, I'm not FFG's target market, they've got to make money, and that's that. Nothing we can do about it. Let the kids have their fun with their new-fangled stuff. Doesn't hurt me, or you, at all. Not unless you let it.

Times change. Tastes change. Maybe this is what kids want. Let's not be a bunch of fussy old folks about it. Let's just do our thing and go our own way, live and let live.

No one owns Warhammer, so calm the hell down. If this is the kind of thing you get worked up about, you ought to try getting out more.

Pierre Campan said:

Sorry Pierre, but by that argument, we all shouldn't have bought WFRP 2E, since it was mechanically very similiar to WFRP.

Also, it seems that while there might be more books published, we've been told that for now they all will come in new "box sets".

Thanks for the report.

Still not buying it.

The dice are too stupid.

Bruenor said:

The main rules probably provide all the stuff for 4 players to each have all the special tid bits they provide. It's not that the game is limited to 4 players, but rather that the box provides all the fancy stuff for 4 players. As far as the special dice go, I don't see it being something that can't be accomlished using normal dice. After all, they describe one of the dice rolling a skull and it's bad. Okay, fine. Instead of a skull, you rolled a single pip. No big deal. It's just that their special dice are, well, special.

As for the rule books being split: it's not a bad thing. Yes, I'm getting 4 books which means it will be easier to use what I need without needing a much larger book. It's akin to if WotC put the PHB, DMG, and the MM all in one book. rather than 3 books. Sure, they could, but what's the point?

As far as the price being too high, I think it's comparable when you consider the set is everything everyone needs to play, whereas with most RPG's, the idea is everyone buys their own handbook. I also imagine that some of these components will be sold by themselves, but that's pure speculation.

I think you are just trying to find problems where none exist.

Steerpike said:

It's possibly you have the option to flee instead of the GM rolling on a critical table.

Wilfred Owen said:

Yeah, but that would be even worse, wouldn't it? You'd have to then tell the player ahead of time that a critical hit was coming and give the option to flee. And if the rules allow the option to flee unhindered, as part of the mechanic, then basically anything that makes sense in-game to the contrary is subverted or else you have to ignore the rule.

My concern with this sort of thing is that the gamist 'mechanics' really end up taking over. There has always been some degree of that in RPGs, but along that continuum a game like 4e D&D is much more egregious about it than other. So what I'm curious about is exactly where this new version of Warhammer will fall on that line. If you get into situations where the rules of the game, for their own sake, dictate player and NPC/monster responses or actions, regardless of in-game RPG type considerations, then you're moving into 4e territory and I'm not interested (though others may well be).

Also, if you always have the option to flee when a crit is coming in, it seems to me that substantially changes the lethality of the game. That's another thing that probably bings to mind 4e for a lot of people, because 4e is a more 'carebear' version of D&D when it comes to character death.

What really bothers me is that the game is built more towards a smaller group of players. At the present time, I'm playing in a 11 player group, which means we would have to dish out a lot more money so we could all play. I find it quite bothersome being that limited, especially with a $100 price tag. The adventurer's tool kit should be included at that price.

The prospect of buying more just because we are more than four playes really turns me off to this product.

Steerpike said:

I think many WFRP GMs have figured out that it's more realistic and varied if some opponents flee before they're slain. This looks like a decent rule for knowing when it's time to run or if you're going to fight to the death.

The option to flee is a little weird. It has the possibility to ruin the “Dark and Dangerous” feel that WHFRPG has had previously. That aspect of the role-playing was what appealed to me and many of my players, I hate to see that go.

Also, the point about how great the cards are because you don’t have to flip though the books to find rules seems pointless. I can’t recall any having to do this during our games. Everyone knew what the had when they leveled and picked a new talent and knew how their characters worked. That brings up a question about careers in this new addition. Do you get all the abilities of the class at once? Say I level from a Troll Slayer to a Giant Slayer, Do I now have ALL of the new classes’ powers? That would be a drastic jump in power instead of the gradual gain in the last two editions. What if some one is slightly behind on EXP, this happens all the time as folks have school and real life issues that might cause them to miss a game, are they going to be behind one career and now are way weaker than the rest of the party?

But the main issue I have is it seems that FF is no longer going to support 2nd Ed. It’s been awhile since they printed a new book for second Ed. I think it was the Thousand Thrones adventure, which was a really good book, and now many of the books are out of print. Maybe they will run a reprint but seeing the PDFs on Drive Though RPG is generally a bad sign. Now I know FF is a business, and they are out to make money, but cusomer support is part of that. What if I don’t like the new edition and want to stick with the old one? Seems like FF’s take on this is tough luck, you need to shell out the 100 bucks for our new game because it’s all we’re going to support.