Just returned home from GenCon with the lowdown on WFRP 3rd Edition.

I attended the FFG WFRP Seminar presented by Jay Little. Jay explained a lot about the new edition and I wanted to set the record straight about some of the game's misconceptions.

I 'm sure FFG will post more info later, but I will try to describe as much as I can remember (it's been a long, long day).

1. WFRP 3 is NOT a boardgame in any shape or form. It's as much an rpg as 1st or 2nd edition if not more more so. It definetly has the potential to be more narrative than both of them.

2. The dice pool is a way to add in modifiers (both bad & good), your attributes, and skills to test whether you suceed or not. This will virtually do away with looking up charts in the rulebook.

3. The career system is Still in 3rd edition. Jay didn't elaborate too much, but mentioned it is very similar to what we are used to. Each player has a career card that sits next to your character sheet and is used during play. Again this cuts down on flipping through the rulebook for information.

4. Halflings WILL be introduced in a later supplement, as well as possibly other races.

5. New careers will be introduced in future supplements, beginning with The Adventurer's Toolkit Expansion which will be released around the same time as the main rules. This expansion will add 10 new careers, more character sheets, etc. This pack will also allow you to expand the number of players beyond the base four that the main rules allows.

6. There will be a campaign set coming out in the not too distant future. Not much info though. There will possibly be adventure expansions as well.

7. The critical hits tables will be in there as well. They have been revised for this new system. They will be lethal, but you will have the option to flee rather than die (if you so choose).

8. Magic will have extra dice used for the dice pool, and these dice will be bad news if the magic user roll chaos symbols on these dice when casting spells.

9. There will possibly be a Ruinous Powers expansion sometime down the line.

10. The new system uses a new concept of stances for when your character wants to do something. Basically you either are very cautious when attempting something or more aggressive, bold. Each have their benefits and drawbacks. Career special ability cards are two sided and have stats and abilities for cautious on one side and bold on the other.

If I were not so exhausted from the day I would try to go more in depth. I'll try to later if I can. From what Jay explained and seeing the core set on display at the FFG site, I believe this will be a great game. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I think if you keep an open mind you may be pleasently suprised.

I do believe that WFRP 3 will facilitate more narrative roleplaying, and less book flipping. I can't wait to try it when it is released.

BTW, I am a long time WFRP player and have been around since the very beginning. I love WFRP 1st & 2nd editions, but I was really impressed with the new game.

Cheers!

Brian

sweet thanks for the first real impressions of the game, most everything so far has been the doomcriers and naysares.

Great to hear this news. I'm pretty well set towards buying this. I've introduced WFRPv2 to various people of all walks of life, and something that makes it easier for new players to learn the rules and follow along without having to look stuff up is win win.

E

No problem. I just wanted to give a real firsthand impression. Jay gave a great presentation. He knows his Warhammer folks. I was on the fence about 3E until his seminar. Now I am sold. This game will definitely be fun! To the naysayers..just wait and keep an open mind. This is NOT 1 or 2E and it's not trying to be. It is a totally different beast, but I believe it may surprise you.

Great news, thanks for the report!

Thanks for the report, mayhaps I'll have some cautious optimism here.

Thanks for giving us a rundown of it. Your descriptions don't sound much like the blurb on their website which i find a little silly. They could have saved a lot of problems if they just said what Jay said on the website instead.

I'm still concerned that the small but vicious dog is being replaced with a huge and mighty dog but will hold out until I've either got an indepth review or have had a chance to read it myself. But I'm not buying it until I've satisfied myself.

Hellebore

Good job on the report. Hope you get a chance to really try it out

I'm impressed with a couple things already:

* Product support. Looks like we're already seeing some future stuff.

* Rules in the player's hands. Cards, as annoying as I used to think they were, are handy for quick reference.

* Character sheets are landscape format..very handy as I'll probably be maptooling the game on the laptop with people in Europe using virtual dice.

* Lots of "stuff." I like stuff. I'm a tactile kind of person.

jh

Thanks for the report - I was cautiously optimistic before but now I'm pretty sure I'm gonna like this. :-D

42!

Thanks for the report, PointyBeardBastard! That really helps.

Any ideas on how levelling goes? How XPs are applied? In what way can I customize my character?

PointyEaredBastard said:

Seriously? Jay didn't elaborate? What the hell? That makes me a sad panda. Why not elaborate now? What would be the point in holding a seminar and not elaborating on one of the points that has caused the most contention!

In fairness though, your report does make things sound a bit better. Were there any opportunities to play a game with the new version or at least see one being played?

Untill then all this talk is still just talk

PointyEaredBastard said:

Thanks a lot Brian!

From all I've read and the playtester comment, and the pictures, as of now I will certainly buy the game and try it out. I am doubtful that it will replace WFRPv2 as the system of choice for WFRP at my table, but there are things in the description of the game that I think would be cool to bring over to the earlier rules.

Hmm ... I both like it and dislike it, basically.

/M

Thanks for the report, let's hope soom of the doomsayers come in here when they can drag themselves away from ringing those plague bells

PointyEaredBastard said:

Has marketing just done an appalling job?

Afterall Jay Little is having to try to convince peope that the game is very different to the one advertised.

One observation I would make is that without a new Campaign to interest fans, what is there to bring them to this game? If there are no new adventures or sourcebooks all that's being offered is an expensive change in mechanics wrapped in a shinny box. I'm still thinking about this one. I think it may come down to how much money I have when it is released.

On that note did Jay Little give a release date?

PointyEaredBastard said:

*g* Not a boardgame, BUT the main rules allows only 4 PC's ??? Thats sounds exactly like an boardgame...

Everything sounds to me like "Lets make money! Have special dice (which are very ugly imo); split the rulebook in two, so the customers think they get more for their 100 $, and so on..." The price is much too high for a Roleplaying product.

Bruenor said:

Isn't that what WotC did with their books? You have the Dungeon Master Manual, the Player Handbook, the Monster Manual and what not? Add that all together, and it's about the same price (minus the dice and cards, so we actually get more).

For the moment, I'm saving my money, and if news keeps being positive, I'll buy it.

sudden real said:

Actually, I remember getting those three core rule books for £50, which I'm sure is a lot less than $100. The fact remains that there was no need for a third edition of WFRP and if FFG were so intent on coming up with a new roleplay system, why could they not just have made it a generic one? This particular thread seems to be made up of people with lots of money and who are happy to abandon 1st and 2nd eds, since this new one doesn't appear to be compatible with them. And all this when there wasn't even any sourcebooks for the core races for 2nd ed!

Nollaig said:

There is very rarely a "need" for a new edition, typically new editions stem from the fact that RPG core books sell really well, books detailing central parts of the setting sell a bit less and the more detailed and niche the books the less they'll sell due to either a lack of interest in that specific area/race/career or by being Gamemaster only and eventually it's not economically viable for the companies to make more books.

With that in mind I'm actually quite pleased that 3ed is so different from 2nd ed. as I'd not be interested in buying a bunch of books that are essentially the same but now with the slightly different 2.5 rules. I'd much rather give a whole new approach to WFRP a go, hoping for a different (and in some aspects better) experience and should that fail I can always go back to 2ed.

42!

Hellebore said:

Jay mentioned that the Ratcatcher career along with the small, but vicious dog will appear in the Adventurer's Toolkit Expansion.

Well I am not completely out, but I'm not in yet. It is a hefty price tag thats for sure. I know that you are paying for 4 books, but I would really like to know the page count on the books, because if they are 120 pages each, then I am paying 99$ for the same page count as I have done for the Dark Heresy Core book! On the other hand, if the page count is between 256 and 400 per book, then I might be interested in shelling out the money.

I like easy access to rules, and high paced, rules light combat, where I don't have to flip through books. And WFRP 3ed. could possibly be one of those systems- like Savage Worlds for example.

On the other hand, I don't like games who needs huge amounts of extra stuff just for one to be able to play the game- such as custom dice, and having to pay for extra players kits- frankly it makes me feel restrained in creating my own stories, and makes me feel like someone elses cash cow. It's one of the things that put me off from playing DnD, I didn't like the fact that I had to buy three books just in order for me to play it. One of the great things with RPG is the old approach of a book and some dice and you would be ready to go on adventure.

All in all, for me it really comes down to cost/benefit concerns. It could probably be one heck of a game, filled with atmosphere and fast paced rules light game- but it could also just be Warhammer the Boardgame, at least in the sense that I would have to buy expansion sets with shiny new action cards and "kewl" new custom dice to a horrendous price, just be able to play FFGs own version of an "Enemy within/Doomstones"-campaign. So is it worth it? Is it fun enough for me to keep buying all those extra gadgets everytime I want to pick a new sourcebook for WFRP? I truly hope so- but better yet, I would rather be completely without it.

I am still pessimistic, I want to like it, I really do, but I can't help but feeling bit like somebody's cash cow, who is going to use WFRP 3ed as a "gateway-drug" into their exciting world of board games. But I really want to be proven wrong! FFG: Prove me wrong, until then, I won't be buying it. Perhaps after a couple of smashing reviews and angels singing it's praise, then I might be persuaded to pay the 99$ and hopefully be able to use this system as a tool to play thrilling, grimdark roleplay in my favourite setting of all: Warhammer.

egalor said:

egalor said:

That question was asked during the seminar, but Jay wasn't at liberty to discuss these points just yet. I believe FFG is gearing up to release a more in depth description in the near future, and he didn't want to spill the beans just yet.

Lupinorc said:

Jay said that the seminar was held mostly to alleviate some of the misconceptions about the game, but not to be a completely in depth review. As I posted elsewhere I believe they are gearing up to release a much more in depth description on the website soon. Unfortunately, they didn't have any demos available. He did offer some examples of play and how the new dice pool works. I really wasn't sold on the dice pool until the seminar. After seeing it in action I was hooked. I believe it will greatly speed up play. All aspects of your action are handled with one roll from the dice pool. The main point they wanted to convey is that WFRP 3E is not a boardgame, even though it uses some boardgame design elements (I.E. cards, etc.). The new game design is both radically different(dice pools) from previous WFRPs and yet has many similar concepts (critical hits, fortune points (dice in 3E), etc.). Hopefully after GenCon FFG will release a more detailed description than I can piece together.

@sudden real:

Foolishboy said:

Jay said that a campaign box set is in the works. No date given for it's release, but he seemed to imply it wouldn't be a long wait. The main boxed set itself is slated for a late Fall release, but no specific date. He did say it would be out way before Christmas. The main boxed set is stuffed to the gills and weighs in at a whopping 6lbs. A group of 4 can play using 1 box set. The Adventurer's Tookit adds enough materials for several more players, as well as more careers, etc. I asked about any Hardcover releases and he said it will be mostly boxed releases for the time being.

Hope this helps,

Brian

LordofEndTimes said:

I think that there is a picture somewhere showing one or two of the "books" and they look pretty slim.