nico said:

Funny that, I'd swear my WFRP 2nd Ed corebook offers the option to play high elven characters as well.

h wait, that's the GOOD WFRP, so that's okay, I guess.

LOL!! What a bunch of Neville Chamberlins we have amongst us!!

Wait and see what happens before you roll over. FFG puts out great games, a lot of them. But of course you naysayers all have ESP"N" and can tell exactly what this new version will be like.

Ptooie!

E

ejacobs said:

Of which I've gotten a LOT more than you...apparantly from your profile you don't feel the games are quite THAT awesome. (If you DO have a lot of their games, you should probably update your profile to reflect that, and then we can discuss their games in the other forums, course I'm normally not a big forum guy on FFG myself, typically preferring to play boardgames instead of browse the forums here).

I'M not liking this direction they seem to be taking WFRP...and I'VE been a pretty BIG supporter of FFG. This on the otherhand, feels more like a slap in the face thus far than any support for the WFRP community or even some of their loyal fans who got their RP game because FFG was publishing it.

It's odd, I can't recall FFG EVER dissing their game fans like it APPEARS (and right now it's only an appearance of their doing that, they could very well have POORLY phrased and poorly presented the new WFRP) they are doing with WFRP v3.

My reply to your comment about FFG dissing their fan base is this: Never have they had such a more rabid fanbase than when they acquired WFRP.

Apparently what I post in my "profile" is the only way I can be "accepted" by you! Oh dear! Come walk the line with me son, and one day, you too will see that a change in a "game" is no big deal.

E

I can't believe a 1 page marketing announcement can cause such rage, rudeness and vitriol.

ejacobs said:

Nor have they ever had a more loyal fan base willing to purchase any product that was actually aimed at them.

So perhaps you can understand them being a little upset when FFG purchases the licence to make their game, does not support it, then scraps it in favour of a game that they do not want or need.

If Jay Little had made an announcement saying that WFRPv2 had become unprofitable and was being phased out, everyone would have been sad but most of them would have understood.

All this nastiness could have been avoided, one way would have been to release this game under a different title something like Warhammer Adventures would have been fine. Had FFG released this game as a seperate line alongside WFRPv2 it would have probably been met with support not anger.

The other way of avoiding the arguments would have been to let WFRPv2 die before bringing out WFRPv3, but instead FFG claimed that WFRP products were being developed and strung the fans along waiting to buy the new supplements only to discover that there wait was in vein and an unrecognisable game was to replace the products that they had been waiting for.

Anonymus said:

Yeah!!! you got it friend

nico said:

Thats exactly what was said about WFRP2 too when it was released. Funny how the same arguments come back with each new edition. Maybe it will happen this time, but I'll wait and see before I draw some conclutions.

Sadly when you read the description of WFRP3 it says:

"A new age is beginning. The winds of magic blow strongly, and the Old World’s two moons shine brightly in the night sky. Storms appear out of nowhere, and the land is rife with conflict. From the north descend savage groups of chaos marauders, men dedicated to the four Ruinous Powers of Chaos. They are seen side by side with degenerate beastmen and profane daemons. Their raids are striking further and further south, yet they are only the scouting forces.

Within, the lands of the Empire are besieged by Orcs and members of hidden cults. The Orcs delight in battle, and are laying waste to all they can find. The enemy within is rising up and striking vicious blows that mankind is unprepared to face. War is coming on all sides.

For every age, there are heroes willing to stand up and fight, or common folk for whom destiny has its own unseen plans. This age sees the arrival of many new warriors. Dwarfs, humans, high elves, and the enigmatic wood elves must set aside their differences to face the forces bent on destroying the Old World. Fortune favors the brave, and these heroes will need all the fortune they can muster."

Everything is about war, orcs, high elves and warriors. Sounds like WFB to me. Only one sentence mention "The Enemy Within", nothing about sinister plots, intriques, secret organisations, corrupted nobles, merchants without morale, poverty and diseases. We dont need a game about war with orcs and beastmen (players who like that have D&D to play). We want a dark low-fantasy roleplay with complex intriques and social interactions where combat is the least favourable action. For me WFRP is the low fantasy version of Call of Cthulhu decribed in classics like Shadows over Bögenhafen, death On The reik and Power Behind The Throne.

Hopefully I´m wrong and FFG will make WFRP 3 the game we wants it to be but right now i´m very sceptical. Sorry!

This is just as it was when WFRP2 came. The conservative are finding small details that they blow up as evidence on the corruption of the new edition. WFRP was also judged as a high fantasy setting where shiny heroes where riding their griffons into battle. Lets have a history lesson.

The back of WFRP1. (On the cover heroes battle orcs and and a ogre.)

The old world. On the surface, it is a civilized and cultured place, where only the occasional conspiracy, assassination or invation by orcs, goblins, beastmen or mutants disrupt the feudal order. Yet a shadow hangs over the world, cast by the corrupting hands of chaos. From the imperial court in Altdorf to the pirate ridden coast of south Tilea, a few heroes strive to hold back the forces of howling chaos, while its hidden servants scheme from within to bring the world to its knees before the dark gods.

You see? All about war combat and heroes with a little hint of schemes.

The back of WFRP2. On the cover shiny heroes battle beastmen.

The old world. A dark and grim place filled with peril and riven by war. From the teeming cities of the Empire to the Elf haunted forest to the lofty crags of the old World' Edge mountains where dwarfs battle with goblins and their vile kin, a shadow hangs over the world, cast by the corrupting hand of chaos. All along its borders, the old world's greatest nation, the Empire, seeks to hold back the dark tide. But even within the Empire there are enemies. Twisted cultists seek to bring about the Empire's fall, cold-hearted beastmen stalk the forest, and loathsome Skaven ratmen spread plague and sickness from their subterran lairs.

In Warhammer fantasy roleplay, you are unlikely heroes in a grim world of perilous adventure. You venture into the dark corners of the Empire and deal with the threats that other cannot or will not face. You'll probably die alone in some festering hellhole, but maybe, just maybe, you'll survive foul mutants, horrible diseases, indidious plots, and sanity-blasting rituals to reap Fate's rewards.

The main text is all about war, heroes and battle with a section of realism in the end.

So the advertising text is not much different from the earlier edition.

Maybe this edition will make it all about shiny heroes in battle with the dark forces, but we don't know yet. And there is nothing that suggest that it will, based on experience from the text on the cover of WFRP1 and WFRP2.

The conservatives where wrong with WFRP2. Lets see if they are right this time. I hope not.

Seems a wee bit harsh to me considering that about 18 months ago every WFRP fan was singing Fantasy Flight Games praises for saving the game from complete obscurity. Sure, they may have only released a couple of expansions for it since then but they have re-released a lot of the older Black Industries stuff on pdf and seem to have a genuine commitment to keeping the fans happy. If they feel that in it's current incarnation the game is not financially viable then well; at the end of the day they are a business. WFRP 3 might be an excellent innovation, or it might suck. What I can see for certain is it's price will alienate some people (me included to be truthful; $99.95 is too much in opinion). Still I respect FFG for their efforts to keep the game alive in a new format and for the excellent work they have done on supplements to Dark Heresy as well as the forthcoming Rogue Trader (well it looks like it's going to be excellent anyway).

Maybe we should cut them some slack.