Hi,

I have a bit of a problem with the fire selector. Per the RAW, "a weapon with a fire selector can have up to three different clips added. At the start of the shooter's Turn, he can use his fire selector to choose which clip he wishes to draw ammo from that round."

Two problems:

1) It's not stated what type of action a character uses to choose a clip. Free action, Reaction, half action, what? As written I'd be inclined to interpret it as a free action.

2) Doesn't a fire selector basically make rapid reload and in fact reloading in general as good as obsolete for SP/Bolter pistols/basics? With the ability to have 4 clips total (or 3, depending on how you read it), you will rarely need to reload at all?

The solution our group chose is ok, but completely illogical. At the start of each round, as a free action, you can choose which ammo you use that round as long as your total ammo supply indicates you have enough of that ammo. Each clip still has the same number of bullets/shells, but you can freely choose each round what ammo type you want.

Clip choosing would presumably remain a free action, just like switching between FA and Single Shot.

However, for exactly the reasons you mentioned (and the fact that limited clip size is a massive balancing factor for certain weapons), I've hit the fire selector with the nerf bat - you've still got three clips, but their combined clip size is equal to the original clip's.

Cifer said:

I've been contemplating doing something similar. I had in mind making it a half action to change which clip you're using, but even that might not really be enough.

Cifer said:

From an engineering perspective (in spite of me not being an actual engineer, but still consider myself a layman in the subject) that could be feasible. Imagine a standard clip, only it's slightly bulkier than usual, because it houses a mechanism with miniature servos and metal arms that switch places of individual bullets in the clip. So if a Manstopper round is at the top of the clip on it's way up to the chamber and you want to switch it for a dum dum instead, you hit the switch on the device and and the automated mechanism removes the manstopper from the top of the clip-feed and replaces it with a dum dum instead.

Sound plausible enough for ya?

Sound plausible enough for ya?

For a 40k-value of "plausible", yes.

Varnias Tybalt said:

I like this, although the total ammo amount in the "clip" would still need to be 4x (in order for the function of the fire selector to remain intact (e.g. use only manstoppers). But sure, if the actual, functional clip itself only contains x ammo (where x = original clip size) and the rest of the ammo is contained in a separate clip feed container or what have you, it makes sense...sort of

Cifer said:

That's what I was aiming for... However when I posted it, it got me thinking. I think I actually have a mechanism in mind that could work even in the real world. But alas my language skills fail me in trying to describe the function. Too bad I can't use flash, since a cartoon animation would probably have been able to give you the right idea.

We play with the rules as they are. It hasnt caused that much difficulty, other than the GM stipulating that the reload time for the weapon is doubled as the clips are close together they are more difficult to manipulate. Its a free action to chose the clip for the round but you can only do this once per round. The fire selector and its 3 clips replace the 1 normal clip the weapon would take.

Our problems with it occur when its applied to specialist weapons. How would it work with a shotgun, or a grenade launcher (underbarreled or one of the normal 6 shot ones?). What about adding a modified version to a flamer?

S.K..

Hack Shotguns and Meat hammers with 3 shots before reload instead of one, and any Autofire weapon benefits greatly since they generally only have 2-3 bursts per clip but now can sustain fire for 6-10 bursts.

Nihilius said:

Yup I sound ignorant but what exactly is RAW? I have been playing the game since it came out and still cant figure this one out. Thanks in advance.

Jlid said:

Ah, the beauty of the RAW is it can be any number of things depending on your preference! Why, it can be:

1. Eddie Murphy in the late 80's
2. Uncooked Meat
3. A surface that has been chafed
4. The Rules as Written
5. Something that is Unprotected
6. Lacking in Experience
7. Disagreeably Damp or Cold
8. Pure, Natural, and Unprocessed

Just take you pick and apply your favorite meaning to all mentions of it and you'll be golden!

Graver said:

Lmao. Nice one. So the Rules As Written. Is this a website that I can access or something? I notice alot of people referencing it like it the LAW, lol.

Jlid said:

Really? They treat the RAW (Rules as Written) as LAW (Lies as Written)? That's a damned shame. Kids these days and their damned suspicious natures who don't believe anything they're told...

Well, it's supposed to be used to indicate that what is being discussed is a direct and unmodified reading of the rules from the book. This is usually to back up an answer or statement on how the rules in the book work, unmodified by house rules and individual interpretation. Since, when talking about the Rules of the Game, the RAW is the only common ground we all share and the only thing that would have any meaning to everyone. After all, the house rules I have in my game probably wont help you out and might end up leading to vast motes of confusion as vastly conflicting answers mount up if you have a question on how a mechanic supposed to work in the book ;-)

Oh, and a website with the RAW would be illegal, though not necessarily against the LAW. ;-p

Solomon Kane said:

Now something I've figured out predominantly when it comes to like a typical shotgun or hack shotgun is make it multi-barreled. While something like a grenade launcher would be abit difficul, though last I checked the rulebook fire selectors only work on SP or Bolt based weapons. Which should kinda help in making things a little easier in handling things.

It could work along the same principle as the extended magazine mod for the revolver in BioShock, extending the drum with a sort of belt-feed.

Pretty cool, and sufficiantly plausable for WH40K

I've also interpreted as the extended magazine mod from Bioshock - which makes it bulky and ugly, something I point out to the only player to use it so far. Reloading is full action per magazine, and the weapon needs space to have all the additional magazines/cylinders.

I still don't like it. If I had though abut the "same clip size, change ammo type with free action" solution I would have gone for that.