http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=729

So this is what things are to be now?

T'ra to 2nd Ed it seems! This is the future... not sure what ot make of it myself... bummed 2nd Ed is done though

Well, with all the 2ed books i've got, i can play warhammer forever and never need a new book.

I am curious as to what this game will be like, Not sure I'll buy it, I won't immediately say it sucks because it seems so radically different. I'll wait and see. I just hope it is nothing like 4th ed Dungeons and Dragons. I thought DnD sucked before, when that edition came out, I didnt have a new adjective for suck to describe it.

The new game looks different enough from 2nd edition that I'm thinking I'll play both.... at first, at least. As there's already plenty of 2nd edition stuff around, I don't feel like it's missing anything. I do hope the new edition doesn't de-emphasize roleplay and problem solving, as that's the heart of the game for me. D&D 4e turned out to be a tabletop wargame with too much emphasis on combat and cool powerz. I'm hoping the new WFRP isn't headed in that direction!

It does spell an end to convenient Elf/Orc/Halfling/Ogre (etc etc etc etc) books that work with 2nd Ed... assuming the new version gets them, there will be much converstion to use them... if not so much as to make it pointless beond making your own supplements.

I think the angle is intriguing. Someone mentioned that "kids today don't have the imagination or attention spans to roleplay" I have to agree, its far to easy to turn on the xbox. Sad, but the way the industry for RPG's is going is that only the older gamers will stick to it, and the new blood will be less and less.

If it takes products like this to keep gaming alive, and compete angainst xbox and MMO's then i'm for it ultimately. Our entertainment has gotten to "un thought provoking" and idiot proof.

Necronomicus said:

Cant agree with you more Nec. I work in a shop, with alot of 17-20 year olds, and while im only 26 (pushing 27) I feel old at their utter lack of imagination (and in some cases, lack of intelligence) its all Xbox or Football, and thats it ... well, except for the weekly party binge, where a 'Good Night' is one you 'Cant remember' and is ranked by how much you are sick, and how long the hangover lasts.

If I ever have my own kids, By the GODS, I will make sure they dont turn out like that.

What is it actually?

3rd edition?

2nd edition core books set?

Some kind of hybrid of rpg and board game?

"I don't know what to think about it - as King Desmod said when he was cought while cheating in cards."

overmind said:

It seems, since it has its own Forum, that it is the 'New Incarnation' Not exactly a 3rd Ed, as its a departure from the basics of 1st and 2nd Ed (D100 base, classic PnP RPG) to what seems to me, to be abit like an RPG/Hero Quest/Warhammer Quest style thing.

RebelDave said:

jadrax said:

Aye, thats true.. but just a look at the dice suggests the rules are a significant departure from the D100 base we are used to. They remind me (as I keep suggesting) of the Combat dice in Hero Quest.

WTFF?!

Where did my old forum go? Why there's a new picture in... Ooooooooh ssssshii... O so hope this is not going to be Descent: the Warhammer...

Wait a minute. If THIS is the new WFRP what the F is Ratcatcher's Tale?!

doc_cthulhu said:

Given the wording on the following News Post about RCT, it seems to suggest it was never a product.... just a misdirection.

Might be. But still.

Luckily I've more liqour in my fridge and no work tomorrow...

doc_cthulhu said:

Aye! So do I! Drown those sorrows! Lamet the never to be seen, 2nd Ed Source Books!

Prof_Nexus said:

Well, by the description, the action cards and so forth appear to be more akin to particularly-flashy quick-reference tools rather than compulsory elements of the game.

It seems to be extremely different. I can see a few design cues from Warhammer Online in there (characters customisable with tactics, which seem like they'd be less permanent choices than things like skills - quite a useful idea if done correctly), and the idea of the party being given collective benefits and drawbacks separate from those of the individual players seems interesting (I've dabbled with it in 2nd edition, having tried Fate and Fortune Points as a pool that any player can draw from previously, but it was nothing compared to what's shown here).

Still wary; it'll be interesting to try it out, but I'm not convinced yet. The biggest problems I see is that the format, with piles of custom dice and shiny game aids, doesn't seem particularly conducive to the idea of releasing a promo adventure (because you can't package all that stuff in a free booklet or downloadable pdf), or to the implementation of houserules or creation of fan-made material. The more unique elements of this sort a game includes, the more stuff that's difficult to replicate or replace, the less customisable the game will be - not much of a problem with a board game, but problematic for an RPG. The tone of the Description page, and the abundance of cards and custom dice, suggests that FFG are trying to market it more towards board gamers wanting to try something different, rather than to RPG players. Complexity and depth of mechanics aren't a worry at this point - FFG do produce very intricate and satisfyingly complex (as opposed to infuriatingly complex - that is, they're complex in the right places and at the right times) board games - and that suggests that they're not so much trying to pander to the "idiot masses" so much as trying to aim the game at an audience they've already got for their other games, possibly at the expense of WFRP's current community.

As I've said, it's the appearance of being ill-suited to customise that worries me - for a game with such a broad setting behind it, and only limited space to describe that setting in rulebooks and supplements (and an intermittent lack of official support), WFRP has always been a game that thrived on customisation and community contribution.

I'm willing, even eager, to be proven wrong... but while I was cautiously optimistic before, actually seeing something of it gives my sense of caution something tangible to work with...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Very good points.... unless the rules allow for the use of other dice, house rules and fan made stuff replies on people having the core set, in order to have the relevent dice, or find an alternative... for existing players, you can pretty much assume everyone has some D10s.

I've nothing against dices and cards. I think they just might bring the fun back into rpg. If rpg equals to dungeon bash.

Descent was alright when I owned it but it didn't offer you changes to express yourself. This just might do it. In a combat. And that just might be alright. I mean that in WFRP combat has always been something that is needed but never covered full-fillingly. Dices&Cards might do it. If other stuff is un-changed I just think/hope I'll like it.

If there's not cards for artifacts. That just ain't for rpg...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

I think that's partly out of necessity.

But maybe there will be blank cards on offer. And if not, in this age of desktop publishing it should be pretty simple to work up a unique skill card or career card on our own.

What bothers me in the slight.. is if the game is aimed at getting the attention of Board Gamers... its price might be abit offputting... twice the price of a board game?

For existing RPGers, its cost is twice the price of a core book....

Necronomicus said:

How about saying that the edition creates an extremely large area of partial vacuum?

RebelDave said:

Yeah. I've but "a bit" more into Arkham Horror than that...

We're living in "Interesting Times".

doc_cthulhu said:

Is thats a Discworld quote, ill add to it with.. Waily Waily Waily!

Necronomicus said:

I have to say that the "Kids have such low attentionspan these days because it's soo easy to just turn on the xbox" argument isn't particularly valid. We have roleplayers today who didn't get into the hobby during the first edition of DnD. We have people who came in long after that (me included). I had access to my playstation and playstation 2 all the time, yet I still considered RPG's being a totally different form of game, and often a lot more fun.

Are you saying that kids today are MORE interested in video games than I was when I was in that age? Cause if you do, I'll be forced to call you a liar.

Let's face it people, video games are not the death of the RPG industry. They have a long way to go before they can replace RPG's completely (if they will ever be able to that is). Playing World of Warcraft and playing an RPG aren't and shouldn't be the same thing, any roleplayer realize that. And while this obscure hobby of ours might seem like it has only a small number of hobbyists, it's because the gaming form is a very specialized niche. It isn't meant for everybody to enjoy. (I have several friends who still can't understand how the hell you play an RPG and how it can be fun, then again they frequently engage in other activities that im just as clueless to understand).

So please stop spelling the doom of the RPG industry already and saying that the industry has to stoop to desperate commercial measuers in order to attract customers. They've been saying the same thing about it for years, but still the hobby exist.

DagobahDave said:

Well, of course, but the game's mechanics - in either 1st or 2nd edition - are conducive to that customisation: adding a new career or a new spell or a ritual or something like that is quite easy, and certainly such elements are much easier to "plug and play" than, say, a new class for D&D.

DagobahDave said:

I'm not saying that's not the case, but that's still a bigger obstacle than the current state of play where any creative GM can throw a houserule or two into a forum post or bolt together a simple Word document or PDF file with his work. It's not an insurmountable problem, but the effort required to surmount the problem does, to me at least, seem greater than it has been, and perhaps greater than it should be.

Certainly, curtailing ease of expansion does seem (to my more cynical side) to be a way to increase sales of supplements (because whatever the situation, the game expands more easily by buying a supplement than it does with individual effort - but increase the effort required to make something up yourself and the supplements become more significant) - what little we've already seen does seem to be leaning that way, with a three-man-plus-GM group being the default supported by the main boxed set, and the game needing an expansion set (the only-briefly-mentioned Adventurer's Toolkit) to comfortably support more players than that.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

On another hand in my experience players tend to be more accepting for "handed out"-rules/things. Meaning that if you give the the "card" that gives them the rules who due execute something they'll more probably accept it than when you give them a printed-out stack of paper.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not. I've been playing MtG with my brother for years and I only get frustrated when there's a new expension with new rules in it...