...possibly seeing some card pack expansions designed specifically for the big box expansions? It'd be great to see some new Challenges, Encounters and Events for Island of Dread and Sands of Al-Kalim (and Frozen Wastes , eventually). Al-Kalim especially seems a little short in the Challenges department. Even some new Items and Allies based on the themes from these expansions would be cool. And it would definitely be cool if there were some new Adventure Variants designed for them.

I know it sounds a little silly having expansions for expansions but I think it 's a good idea, otherwise people will eventually get bored playing the same scenarios with same Challenges, Events, winning conditions, etc. The standard Runebound game has plenty of extra goodies to use, so why not develop some stuff for the other maps?

Whatta y'all think?

Sounds like a good idea to me, hopefully FFG is listening!

The card expansions don't take up that many resources and are relatively cheap to buy (so I infer they are cheap to make.) Maybe start with one for each big box expansion to test the waters on the fanbase (I suggest one for each big box because I gather these card expansions are released in "waves" of 3 or 4 at a time.) I agree that some adventure variants and new challenges for the other maps would be Cool McDrool!

> Sounds like a good idea to me, hopefully FFG is listening !<

And that's the real issue, isn't it? Just how often do they really listen to the fans/message boards? The b.s. over the mass-release of the Wolf figure for Tannhauser comes to mind.

Tom O' Bedlam said:

Actually, in my experience FFG is far and away one of the most involved companies when it comes to observing and responding to the fan base. I won't go into the Wolf situation in this thread since it's off topic for this board, but I don't personally see that as FFG ignoring the community. As far as I can tell it's just a bunch of people who don't understand or don't like the promo business model. I'm not too fond of it either, but I can see it from FFG's point of view.

What point of view is there to be had? That they'd rather lose out on money by not mass-releasing something that a large portion of the customers who play that game want? Not everyone could afford or even knew about the pre-order and then there's people like me who'd never even heard of the game until a few months ago. Is my money not good enough because of previous ignorance? Yes, they still sell some at GenCon but how many people can afford to travel that far (not all gamers live in the upper Midwest), especially in this economy, just to get something that should've been mass-released, if not initially when they did the pre-orders, then by this point when the game has obviously been out long enough and is doing well. There is no successful business model that says turning away money is good for business. And if it was a question of "rarity" then it wouldn't have had a mass-release in Europe not to mention the fact that nowhere is it mentioned that this game was going to have a "collectability" aspect to it like with CCG's.

And while it may not precisely be a topic for discussion on this particular board, the points I make could still apply in the future. By that I mean, if they've done something like that once they could, in all likelyhood, do it again with Runebound, Descent or any other game.

Well, as I've said in other threads, the purpose of a promo figure is to entice people to come to some particularly exclusive event, like a convention or what not (in the case of Wolf it was pre-ordering the game, same idea.) If they then turn around and sell the promo item off the shelf, the people who went the extra mile to get it the first time will feel betrayed. More importantly, if they make a habit of releasing promo items as regular sale items then people will stop jumping through the extra special hoops because they know they'll be able to buy it off the shelf a year later.

These items are called promo items because they're meant to promote something. If no one uses whatever's being promoted then there's no reason for the company to go to the trouble of making the promo items in the first place. This is why the business model won't change. This goes for all companies that use promo items, btw, not just FFG. As I said before, I'm not crazy about the system either, but I understand why they won't entertain the idea of de-promo-iszing a promo item. If you want to go on hating and insulting FFG for it, you can go nuts. I for one am not willing to spend that much time being angry over something I can't control. I'd rather spend my time loving the stuff I got in the base game (I also am not fond of jumping through hoops, but I'm willing to accept there are few choice items out there I don't own.)

Now, in a desperate attempt to return this thread to its original topic, FFG has in the past been highly active on the forums in answering fan questions about basically every game of theirs I own (those are the only forums I really read normally, but the behaviour is consistent across them all.) A great number of their FAQ answers and errata rulings show that they have at least considered the fanbase's opinion on what a rule should be, even if they don't always come down on the same side as us. And their customer support in the case of broken or defective game components is second to none. I've only had to avail myself of it once, but I've heard stories about them replacing almost the entire contents of a game based solely on the customer's word that all these things were somehow messed up. I love how active FFG is and if they are reading this thread, I hope they put some serious thought into card expansions for the other Runebound big boxes. I think it would breathe new life into a game that's already know for nearly endless adventure.

I'll give one last reply and then drop the subject. I don't hate FFG, I just think in this particular instance they acted unfairly. As for it being a promo item only, if that was the case then they wouldn't continue to sell them at GenCon- they would've stopped further access to it as soon as the game was released. As for "betraying" those that pre-ordered they got the figure through the promo, they should be happy in the knowledge that they got the mini first and have been one of the few to play with it all this time. It seems more a betrayal to the others who, as I said before, couldn't afford the pre-order at the time or didn't even know the game existed when the promo was offered but would now like a chance to get Wolf. If they still want to keep some sort of exclusivity about it, FFG could do a limited-time release on their webstore only or do another promo with another expansion- something to give a new set of fans the same opportunity as the old ones without having to spend way more money than it's worth by trying to get to GenCon or get one off eBay. You see, I've always been under the impression that the goal of a business is to make money and it seems to me like they're missing out on a fair amount. But whatever. Point made, subject dropped.

As for the other stuff, I've seen all the online support they've done and think it's great but, not having much experience with the company until recently, I've no knowledge on how much they listen to the fans on new ideas and release of materials. The only example I know of was the Wolf thing (and a few other complaints about support for Tannhauser, but it's not worth getting into), which is why I used it. I haven't been here long enough to know if there are any good stories about FFG taking a fan idea and doing something with it and other than the Tannhauser stuff I don't know of anything else that people have had any serious complaints about (but then I don't read all the boards either) so they're obviously doing a pretty good job overall. When I made that statement I wasn't so much complaining as speaking from a lack of knowledge, that's all, but I can totally see how it could be seen the other way. That's the one problem with non-personal communication: you can't always determine someone's actual tone, or even context. It seems like the more people use things like message boards and texting and what have you, they forget about things like that and how they're really coming across.

Tom O' Bedlam said:

They did, it was called "pre-order the game".

Also, if they did what you suggest, having another limited time offer, new people who come to the game after that promotion is over, are gonna feel screwed too, the way that you feel. It would accomplish nothing.

Anyway, the other guy already explained why they do it, so I have nothing more to say.

Oh yeah, as for the company missing out on money by not selling the promo to the general public, you have to realize that by virtue of it being a promo, they'll sell more copies of the game* (50-ish or so dollars I think) versus selling the figure, they miss out on those extra sales but instead get 5 bucks or so a pop for selling the figure, they'd have to sell ~10 figures to equal one sale of the game.

*Obviously not everybody who got the promo is going to buy the game, but some people who recieved it, will/did buy the game though they wouldn't have otherwise.

I think Adventure expansions for the big box expansions is an amazing idea! I know I'd buy any and all them.

I'm a huge fan of the 30 card desks that put a lot of variety into the game. Keeps it really fresh and different for each play through. They are so worth the money.

Look at the base Runebound... wow! My market stack it too tall to stand in one pile and I love it! And I really do wish there were more encounters.

This is a great idea and I too really hope that FF is listening!

I also wish they would add something to the game to make it a solid solo board game. I made a post about an idea of hunters a while back... but not a soul commented on it, so clearly I'm not the man for the job but I am the man to buy any expansions FF will put out!