I haven’t got the rules with me & need a quick question answered. During outdoor encounters do the minions flee when the leader is killed or is that only during lieutenant encounters?

Cheers.

The monsters only flee during Lt encounters from what I can find in the rulebook.

When the leader of an Outdoor Encounter is killed, the Overlord cannot use the Reinforce ability of the Encounter card anymore (if applies) to bring new monsters on the board. So it basically means that the heroes have to clean what is left to end the encounter or flee themselves via one of the exit square.

And Big Remy is right. Only Lieutenants can flee and encounter. Not normal or named monsters.

Ezhaeu said:

This is true, but not exactly what I put . I said that the monsters flee. This is if and when the Lt flees or dies.

Thanks very much

Actually, regarding the Reinforce ability - when the (non-Lieutenant) leader dies, the Overlord cannot use the Reinforce ability any more. What about if he has one monster waiting at the edge of the map from just before the leader dies, can he bring the monster on next round (assuming there are other monsters still alive)?

Noodle2977 said:

I believe the monster would come on regardless as the cost to reinforce it was paid the previous turn. Once the cost is paid, the monster is placed on the edge of the map, but can't be targeted or activated until the OL's next turn. So, even if the everything else is dead or fled, the monster is still there.

jboulton98 said:

Based on what? I think it should too, but can't see any grounds for it. The Reinforce ability is what allows the new monsters to enter (move onto) the game board. Being placed on the sidelines ready to enter next turn is just part of the mechanics. If the figure is not yet on the game board and the Reinforce ability is no longer operable, then there is nothing that allows that monster to enter the game board.

RtL pg 30
Reinforce allows leaders and lieutenants to bring new monsters onto the game board during encounters.
pg 14
On the overlord’s next turn, he may move the reinforcements onto the map as though they were one space away from the exit spaces they were placed next to.

The question is when the 'Reinforcement' ability finishes. Once the monster is placed on the sidelines or once the monster is moved onto the board? Since moving onto the board is a) described under the Reinforcements ability, and b) not usually possible, I think we have to conclude that it is part of the Reinforcement rule.
Sucks for the OL, but there it is, IMO.

Corbon, I don't necessarily disagree. However if the reinforcement has already been summoned...then that aspect of the leader's ability has already been brought to bear (in linear terms). Just because the reinforcement didn't instantly materialize on the board doesn't mean it isn't still on its way into the action. I think it's at least equally plausible that the act of reinforcement has already occurred. It's almost more of a reach, in my opinion, to rule that it is zapped back out of existence again. Just a thought.

Schmiegel said:

That aspect yes. However the second aspect, actually moving onto the board is still part of the ability.

The figure isn't zapped out of existence, it just can't enter the game board. Effectively, it flees (though not actually), and indeed, could be considered 'observing'.

RtL, page 14 - "The reinforce ability allows the overlord to place a new monster .... off the board,"

RtL, page 14 - "Reinforcements are puchased and placed at the end of the overlord's turn, and may not be activated that turn."

From those two sentences, it's obvious that the acts of paying for and placing a monster are the important elements of the Reinforce Ability. Actually bringing them onto the game board is an inevitable next step (if the OL wishes), unless the summoning agent is a Lieutenant.

If any monster would continue to attack when the encounter leader dies, then the reinforcing monsters would attack also, not stand back and "observe."

eggsmel said:

Partial quotes are not the full information.
Also from RtL pg 14 - "On the overlord’s next turn, he may move the reinforcements onto the map as though they were one space away from the exit spaces they were placed next to..."

Moving on to the board is also part of the Reinforcing ability. Note that the monsters may move on 'as if' they were one space away. They are not actually one space away and without the reinforcing ability giving them this capability they could not normally move onto the board at all.
You have defined what is 'important' in the ability and apparently dismissed 'moving on' as unimportant. I wish I had that power...

In my opinion, the monster being placed one space off the board is a "free agent", and not dependent upon the level leader any longer after having been summoned. I believe the reinforcing is an act that is separate from the monster moving onto the board. He isn't dependent upon the level leader for his movement anymore than at any other time. It's not as if he is necromanced, and beholden to his master. In a lieutenant encounter, it's made quite clear that the monsters flee in terror if the lieutenant is killed. There is absolutely no such clarity in the case of the outdoor encounter level leader. Consequently I think it can be inferred that a reinforced monster remains, regardless of the level leader's death.

The rule, as I read it, implies that it is the Overlord now in charge of the reinforced monster's movement, as opposed to the level leader . So in the absence of more compelling evidence to the contrary, I believe the reinforced monster should properly move onto the board on his next turn.

This one might be a good example of an issue in need of a Kevin Wilson ruling to settle it once and for all..

Schmiegel said:

In order to come to this conclusion you must ignore, or somehow invalidate as part of the rule, both the pg 14 text that says "...he may move the reinforcements onto the map as though they were one space away from the exit spaces..." and the pg30 description that says " Reinforce allows leaders and lieutenants to bring new monsters onto the game board during encounters" .
The main problem appears to be that the Reinforce rule isn't clearly and specifically defined. Only how you use it is written out, and a general description. Given the lack of a definition, or using the definition (general description?) in the Special Abilities section (pg 28-30), I think that anything covered in the specific Reinforcements section on pg 14 is part of the reinforcements rule. Others appear to think that the Reinforce ability has a much more limited definition that they can somehow decide is only a part of section 14, and differs from pg 28.

The rule, as I read it, is the only thing allowing a monster that is not on the board to move onto the board. If the monster was already on the board then yes, the OL would control it without the reinforcing ability being required. But without the reinforcing rule the edge of the board is usually an absolute that may not be crossed over from the outside (and only crossed over from the inside in order to leave, permanently, when specifically allowed).

But, yes. I can see this one as being worthy of adding to the next set of questions to FFG.

And two posts ago you said that partial quotes are not full information....

Curiously you refer to the Reinforce entry on page 30 of RtL as a defining standard. Yet that definition refers players to pages 14 and 16 for full details.

I think that Schmiegel is right. The monster is a free agent under the control of the OL. (I would not bring on a monster summoned by a Lieutenant if the Lieutenant dies before the OL could move the monster onto the board.)

There is nothing on pages 14 or 16 that states the Encounter Leader or Lieutenant are bringing the summoned monster onto the board. It does, quite specifically, state that the OL moves the summoned monster onto the board. I think that "moving on" is unimportant because the desired effect has been achieved; namely giving the hero party a fighting chance like they would have in a dungeon with spawned monsters. I think you have the power to consider moving on unimportatt, you're just not giving yourself enough credit..