This is probably old news to some, but it seems FFG are already putting plans in place by reserving a web address for the Deathwatch RPG.

Go to http://deathwatchrpg.com/index.asp and it takes you to the FFG main site.

Just thought I'd point it out...

So it begins... Well, if it allows me to play one of those cool "House" assassins like Eversor, I might consider it. I can picture it now, my character would be quiet, possibly a mute, and only speak in Battle Sign when in character.

I really dont think the ability to play a member of the Eversor Temple would be a good idea in a roleplay game because when you are not actually out on a mission you would be strapped to a chair and brain washed or locked in a cell until needed.

The other Temples are a bit iffy to play in my opinion but at least their members are still functionally human (I am chosing to ignore the bio-enhancements at this moment in time), they have not had their minds and personalities wiped. Eversors are effectively just arco-flagellents with some serious skills and the capacity to explode in a big ball of goo, not exactly much to roleplay on the character development side of things.

Really, the whole idea of the Deathwatch rpg worries me. DH and RT are focused on story, with the 40K background providing a brilliant setting to tell it in (I am choosing to ignore the many inconsistencies and newer GW background of Smurf Marines rock and can do anything), Deathwatch can only go down the route of here's a big gun, go kill stuff and when you're finished come back, pick up some more ammo and do it again, and frankly I can do that with miniature based wargames and skirmish games such as Warhammer 40K and DnD 4th ed.

not necessarily, you can actualy play out an entire military campaign. not something easily accomplishable with a group of guardsmen but set a squad of SM against an entire battalion of chaos and dont tell me there wont be roleplay in it. SM's getting tempted to go to the darkside and heroic sacrafices dont knock it until its out and about and you've played it.

@ThenDoctor: Not to sound snippy but how is that different from the corruption and insanity mechanics we have already? All three RPGs have or will have the players regularly encountering dark beings better left undisturbed and a possiblity of "falling to the Dark Side." Dark Heresy itself has many, many ways the PCs could be fighting to the last man for the Imperium's "Greater Good" if the GM is feeling sadistic. There are ways of having "epic" without Space Marines.

Banjulhu said:

That was largely an example but yes, anyone playing an assassin of the Eversor Temple is either going to play up the "that boy ain't right" aspect for maximum hilarity or is a little unstable himself. Or doesn't have a clue what being an assassin of Eversor entails. And I probably score "D- all the above." =P

Honestly, I'm just going to remain skeptical until we get the grand "here's what we really have planned for Deathwatch" article posted. Space Mairines do not strike me as an exciting character choice (but I prefer my odds of success to be a bit more hazy) but I will admit that Fantasy Flight has done an amazing job executing and selling me on an idea I thought was largely impossible, roleplaying in the 41st millenium. So I'll at least give them a chance to convince me, they certainly would have the best idea how.

Banjulhu said:

Well, Ross has already said that Temple Assassin stats will be in the Ascension supplement for Dark Heresy (of course, they might not be PCs... but then again, they might), as will playable Inquisitors (this has been confirmed).

This kinda leaves Deathwatch just for Space Marines, unless you can think of other careers or people (other than Inquisitors and Assassins) that can be as powerful as Space Marines...

Maybe this will open up as yet unknown "support" ranks in chapters, like scout recruits and low level chapter clergy. You know- Chaplain pages and Tech Marine cog boys and such.

I fail to see why the idea of a Deathwatch RPG "worries" people.

Yes, there are ways of having Epic without Space Marines, but there are also ways of having epic WITH them too. Why should they be pushed to the side? There are people out there who would actually like to play one. Why shouldn't they be catered for? I know people who don't like investigative rp games but does that mean Dark Heresy should never have come to light? Hell no! Because there are people out there who DO like these games, just as there are people out there who will love exploration based games such as Rogue Trader and others who won't enjoy it.

If you don't like the idea of playing a Space Marine / Callidus Assassin / Inquisitor Lord / other powerful individual, then don't play one, but don't knock those people who DO want to try it.

We should be encouraged to try new ideas, take on different ways of roleplaying some one or some thing. God knows in the 25 years I've been roleplaying, both myself and my player-friends have rp'd some really bizarre characters in our time, but we've never NOT enjoyed the challenge. Anyone can say "No", but the true challenge waits for those not afraid to say "Yes" once in a while.

I guess I've just seen far too many posts putting people or their ideas down when it comes to talking about Deathwatch or playing Space Marines and the equivalent that I just needed to vent my frustration.

Rant over. Please continue.

Space Monkey said:

See my last post about this. These guys aren't going to be in Deathwatch, according to what Ross said on the D6 Generation podcast and in my interview with him for Dark Reign. Both of these guys are going to be in Ascension, which is a Dark Heresy book (not a Deathwatch one).

These guys may not be in Deathwatch, or maybe they will be. What little Ross has said about DW has been about the fact that 1) Space Marines are playable and 2) that you won't necessarily all be playing Astartes. What that actually means has been the subject of some conjecture, but whatever FFG is planning for DW, I really doubt it's just Uber-Hardcore super-soldier gun porn.

And anyhow, in Ascension I'd expect that the Inquisitors we will be able to play will be fresh new Inquisitors, not necessarily Eisenhorn or Ravenor or Cruz. There will still be room to grow into someone who hangs out with Astartes all the time. Or at least part of the time.

Space Monkey said:

I see the pot calling the kettle black and that's all I'll say on that.

Ooooooo, handbags at dawn...

Deathwatch related posts always (and I mean ALWAYS) deteriorate into people constantly saying "Marines aren't playable!" and I'm just getting sick and tired of it.

If you want to keep bitching about DW and Space Marines go start your own thread called "Deathwatch? Hell no!" or something, and leave the rest of us who are genuinely interested and excited about its release to enjoy the idea of it...

Deathwatch will be the easiest RPG for them to create. It's even more mission constrained than DH.

It will mainly be space marine careers and a massive armoury with an antagonist list for them to blow away with said armoury.

No money troubles, no ammo counts. Requisition points for new gear. Do down time training, get sent on mission, kill stuff, finish, down time training again etc.

The Deathwatch are even more specialised than normal marine chapters. That extremely narrow slice will make it much easier to create an RPG for it.

Hellebore

Hellebore said:

That's the bit that worries me.

It's not that marines are not playable, they are, Inquisitor always got interesting when a marine turned up (at least for one or two games until all that happened in each game was your warband being owned by one marine), however if you play them properly all you will be doing is killing stuff and waiting to kill more stuff (same as the Temple Assassins in that respect), and I am sure there are GM's out there that could create some fantastic missions, but if the Deathwatch are to be involved they will have to be action/combat heavy missions that would be all but fatal to most humans, as the Deathwatch would not be sent in otherwise.

Now if you all your players are looking for action, violence and knowing no fear, then yes Deathwatch is what you need, but given that most groups are a mixed bunch that have some people favouring social interaction and investigation over combat, the game will get tricky as there is limited scope in having marine characters in no combat situations. So you will end up having to bias the game for one character type over the other, which is not a good thing.

DH gets around this by making you realise that compared to most of the theats present in the galaxy, your characters are pathetic and very similar bar one or two starting skills capacity wise (ie you all suck), for me this works, it makes your characters more realistic, you are not a god of destruction, just some poor sod with a novelty cigarrette lighter and a job to do, it is what life in the 41st millenium is like for most people.

I will admit the chance to play a space marine is cool, GW background and story has brainwashed me too much over the years not to think that, but it will put serious constraints on whatever campaign you take part in and closes off some of the best bits of roleplaying in the 40k universe.

Those of us in the squeemish Space-Marines-as-characters-really? camp need to see the sheer brilliance of having a slightly tangential Space Marines game to the other 40k fare. FFG won't have to worry about breaking either Rogue Trader or Dark Heresy with the inclusion of Astartes as playable characters...they leave that up to the discretion of GM's and their groups to decide if cross polination is valid. I applaud them for giving everyone that wants to play a space marine an 'official' option. God Emperor knows I'm going to purchase it if only to tsk through my teeth and also enjoy the cool factor of a space marine RPG in my hands.

There are a lot of stages that a space marine goes through prior to actually becoming a full fledged rock eating acid spitting monstrosity. They could easily set the power level (of Deathwatch as its own entity) such that PC's begin in the scout or pre-scout level and advance to become truly fearesome and rad. Additionally, in my experience roleplay is the responsibility of those playing the game and I'm sure that ample gripping events and stories could be told through the platform of a group of battle brothers. Plus, with the Deathwatch you could grab marines from many chapters all doing their rotation without the real worry of getting players to agree upon a single chapter of marines. This would eliminate the slap fighting that tends to happen between fans of the Space Wolves and Ultramarines.

At the very least Deathwatch will expand on the 40k RPG library and that really can't suck unless you don't thuroughly enjoy the 40k universe in which case there is a witch-burning coming your way...

Very interesting. I was very excited back when Black Industries announced Deathwatch as one of the planned 40k RPG lines. Hopefully this is indeed 'proof' that such development is ongoing. Perhaps we will hear more at GenCon this week? Anyways if Rogue Trader is easily merged with Dark Heresy as is being indicated, I will certainly hope that Deathwatch would be no different.

Alluvian Est-Endrati said:

Well, if you had been at the Dark Reign interview of Ross Watson, you'd have heard Ross confirm that yes, Deathwatch is indeed being made.

Hellebore said:

I expect Deathwatch to be about small groups of heavily armed and highly capable warriors fighting behind enemy lines most of the time, without oversight or easy resupply. The hit-and-run model will work, but I think the trick about making DW a thrilling game will be putting the PCs in real danger for an extended time. I don't think you can do that with a battleship hovering over your head the whole time and the Exterminatus button always within reach.

I think the deathwatch marines would start to grumble if EVERY mission they were sent on was behind enemy lines with no supply where no support could be expected. One or two fubar missions sure, but they are supplied and equipped by the inquisition for specialist missions. They don't have the resources to be left alone for months on end.

Unless you dropped a command bunker with 50 spare clips each they can't complete their mission with a mono knife. Unlike Brothers of the Snake an RPG actually has to EXPLAIN how 10 space marines kill 2000 dark eldar with nothing but bolters. Given the stats of Angamor they would have to carry at least 400 rounds each which is more than 10 magazines per marine...

Hellebore

I suppose the real question isn't how to create a DH-style game using Space Marine PC's, but rather what kind of game does FFG intend to create? Rogue Trader seems to have quite a bit in common with DH (rules for example) but the main thrust of the game is quite different.

In Dark Heresy we play individual servants of the Emperor given individual tasks.

In Rogue Trader we have the opportunity to play characters in command of many thousands of men at arms, who chart their own destiny in the name of profit. This all happens under the purview of the game's new, unique, rule set.

What does that leave for Death Watch? I think its safe to say that the characters will be playing as Inquisitors and Space Marines, plus whatever other archetypes FFG sees fit to throw into the pot. But what, exactly, will be the goal of the game? In DH the goal is often survival. In Rogue Trader the goal will be profit. What, then, could be the goal of Death Watch? I'm not sure...

The death watch are, as far as I know, under the direct control of the Ordo Xenos, so presumably the player controling the Inquisitor PC might have a great deal of control over the mission and how its executed. He will also be the one to requisition ships, equipment, etc...Where would that leave everyone else -other than eventually pulling the trigger and purging the xeno, etc etc...

I suppose one possibility is that Death Watch could be a true 'dungeon-crawler'. This might represent a nod to the setting's early incarnations (i.e. Space Hulk) The rules would be even more combat-heavy than they are now, and RP would only be as important as it is in you average traditional D&D level grinder...

Anyone else have any ideas how this could be a unique take on 40k RP?

Hellebore said:

You don't need the Deathwatch unless things are fubar. And I'm sure there are some Marines that relish the opportunity to serve the Emperor under those conditions. That's a true challenge of their ability, and just as important as open war. And while Space Marines may not be given enough ammo to fire their bolters for weeks without resupply, PCs certainly have the resourcefulness to get around that.

Anyway I'm sure we'll see a mixture of adventure types. Hit-and-run missions are going to get old, and you can't play Saving Private Ryan every weekend. And you'd want to throw in some investigative stuff, if only to build up horror and suspense for the first hour of Space Hulk style adventures.

I'm not sure how you'd do investigation with a space marine, they kind of stand out. Or do you mean exploration? Searching dead alien necropoli, space hulks, hives etc for the alien menace?

The point I was making was the marines will need backup just to resupply them with ammunition, which they will expend during their mission. so either their missions are short enough that they won't need refills or they will keep getting ammo top ups. A single marine cannot carry dozens of astartes armoured bolter magazines, they're too big and bulky and will get in the way.

@Nullius, afaik DW will still use the same game mechanics as DH and RT. So it will essentially be the same game, with perhaps some streamlining of combat (as it will be combat heavy) and higher end NPCs to slaughter.

Hellebore