I haven't played since last years worlds. I plan to play in this years world but I'd like to catch up pretty fast on any major changes in the game.

Example are we still allowed to use the CCG cards or can we only use the LCG ones?

Are both FAQ's in effect for tournament play or only the LCG one?

Smashsplitter said:

Basically - can a player use original, black boarded versions of cards reprinted in core set ???

of course, the whole deck must be sleeved in opaque sleeves.

I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming that only white bordered LCG cards are legal... ????

Smashsplitter said:

The main event, Friday, August 14th at 11:00 AM, where the greatest players of Call of Cthulhu: The Card Game will gather to determine who is the ultimate champion! (Registration begins at 10:00 AM, please report to the TO early if you are planning on participating in this tournament, as any player not registered once the tournament has begun will not be able to compete in the event.)

Call of Cthulhu LCG World Championship 2009 Deckbuilding rules: Your deck must contain at least fifty cards, not including Domain cards or Story cards. No more than three copies of any card, by title, can be included in your deck. You must use the Story deck from the Call of Cthulhu Core Set. Only cards from these sets will be allowed: Call of Cthulhu Core Set, Mountains of Madness Asylum Pack, Ancient Horrors Asylum Pack, and any Asylum Pack from the Summons of the Deep expansion.

Only the newest FAQ is in effect.

The TO has not yet announced if exact reprints (for example using EE R141 Scotophobia for CS F 97 Scotophobia) are allowed -he actually hasn't been asked yet-, nor if it is the case, sleeves policies.

Maybe I'm just simple minded, but it seems perfectly clear to me:

" Only cards from these sets will be allowed: Call of Cthulhu Core Set, Mountains of Madness Asylum Pack, Ancient Horrors Asylum Pack, and any Asylum Pack from the Summons of the Deep expansion."

Black bordered cards are NOT from any of those approved sets, therefore, NO black bordered cards are allowed.

Go ahead, buy the additional Core sets to get your 3 White-Bordered Scotophobia, or borrow them from your buddies for the tournament.

Chick

Urban, are you considering crossing the Atlantic to play ?

If so I hope you kick butts in the tournament !

Chick

chicklewis said:

Sounds perfectly clear, on the other hand I seem to recall that the TO for the only (LCG) game that matters stated that text reprints would be allowed -edit: actually it's in the AGoT lcg faq-. Maybe I am comparing apples and oranges here but I figured enquiring about this could have brought some light to the matter.

Until then you are 100% right that only white border cards need apply.

Carioz, sounds like you are right, it would be worth asking. I have never paid any attention to Game of Thrones' documents, and was unaware of that hint.

Chick

When and why did FFG decide to make the reboot on CoC by banning the old cards for Standard play? Will there be a Legacy tournament that allows the black border cards as well?

chicklewis said:

I wish I could, I really do

But unfortunately, I can't

On general note - (bitter remarks follow) -

we have another "nice" nod from FFG towards older players' base - in official tournaments you can use only WB lcg cards... Then again, FFG shows that kind of negative attitude towards us for a year or so...

Smashsplitter said:

Officially it never ever did it. Unofficially about one year ago, give or take a week. Why? It had something to do with former girlfriends and milquetoast...

Smashsplitter said:

Nope.

Well, will get some answers at Gencon because there representatives should be there. One cool note is the maker of the game is usually there too.

Also, can we use black border cards that are clones of the ones in the Core Set? Seems like an obvious yes, but I want to make sure.

Oh and I have a beef with the Core set? They rebooted the game but left it with the same problem it had before, Cthulhu has the best cards. DOA, Ravengers, SA, and Dagon. My other problem I see with building a deck for the LCG format is that character choices for a deck are very limited. Cuts down the strategy alot. I kind of wished they would of just started errating sets like arkam. Something similar to what Magic does.

Smashsplitter said:

I think the only way to know would be to contact the Tournament Organizer or, maybe, if FFG isn't outsourcing the tournament organization, the contact page for FFG. I cannot be arsed to as I am not going to gencon.

Smashsplitter said:

That's pretty much which many older players are convinced. Turns out some people believe the contrary, that choices and ability to create diverse decks killed strategy. Why? I dunno.

There are some new strategies, yes. But much less than before. I think Hastur has been given a huge upgrade though. But play testing will be required to prove this.

well, it looks like black boarded verions of cards will be banned from FFG tournaments.

And yes, Hastur had the best cards from AP so far, good enough to make it even in legacy format.

Cthulhu is second - with teror of the tides, a sinle path (that's a very good card, playtested it yesterday in legacy format, can make wonders). New Julia - I don't know yet, needs more playtesting.

Shub - some search effects / return to play - only working on shub characters,

and finally yog - the weakest faction in mythos - with honorable mention going to guardian, idol (personal favourite - mishra's factory in cthulhu) and perhaps the sleepwalker...

Well, at least that's my opinion (from legacy format point of view).

Urban said:

Why ban the black versions of the cards if they are the same thing? Is the only reason for more money?

Smashsplitter asked: "Why ban the black versions of the cards if they are the same thing?"

My answer woud be FOR SIMPLICITY. Otherwise sombody would have to make up a big official list of which cards were identical. And there is no margin in that for FFG, so, >>> hugely simpler to just say no black borders.

Chick

But offically will they let me use the older cards if they are the same as the core set. I would like to save myself $100. I do intend on picking up all the AP's and that will cost plenty there.

As one of many who has played the game for several years now, I would be fairly upset if black border versions of cards that are currently legal were not allowed in tournament play as it would render my collection worthless. Just a weighing of the benefits (that I'm aware of) to the problems caused makes it pretty obvious which is the better idea:

Pros of not allowing black bordered versions of currently legal cards:

It's easier to remember which cards are legal.

FFG makes more money IF everyone is willing to re-purchase their entire collection.

Cons of not allowing black bordered versions of currently legal cards:

Alienates long time players.

Renders collectors' collections worthless for game purposes.

Indicates that FFG doesn't mind alienating long time players, dumping the value of their collections, or forcing them to purchase the same product multiple times.

Goes against the grain of every other CCG/TCG/Deckmaster game I'm aware of.

Pros of allowing black bordered versions of currently legal cards:

Allows you to pimp your deck with black border versions.

Makes it worth buying/trading for old cards.

Doesn't alienate long-time players.

Allows long time players a way to express their long-term loyalty to the game.

Helps alert new players to the existence of the legacy-style format.

Black borders look better!

Cons of allowing black bordered versions:

Someone might run a black-bordered card that is not legal, convince their opponent that it is legal, convince their opponent not to check on the card's legality with a judge, repeat this process with every opponent they face over the course of a tournament, win, and later be discovered, thereby besmurching the game, the players, the tournament, and all involved.

Oh, also, someone posted what I think are the rules of the Worlds tournament, which included: "Only cards from these sets will be allowed: Call of Cthulhu Core Set, Mountains of Madness Asylum Pack, Ancient Horrors Asylum Pack, and any Asylum Pack from the Summons of the Deep expansion."

As that is worded, it's obvious that you can use black bordered versions so it would also go against the logical reading of the rules to hold otherwise. DOA is a "card from... Call of Cthulhu Core Set" so it's legal. Black border DOA is DOA. White border DOA is DOA. DOA is legal at Worlds.

BloodHelmet said:

They don't. Nate told a couple of us at 08 Origins that after the last AP (of this cycle) comes out, black border will be dumped and white border only will be the standard. FFG makes nothing from your old collection and wants to move new product.

I read that as only the actual, physical cards from the mentioned packs can be used, not just the named cards in those sets. The DOA must be the white bordered Core Set version, as must the Shotgun Blast. Once again, Cthulhu wording is vague enough to allow multiple interpretations.

A lot of cards had their wording changed in the transition to LCG so I can see why, for the sake of newer players, they might just not want to bother with allowing black bordered cards. It certainly sucks if you're an older player, though.

Donald10 said:

Ouch. Well, hopefully they'll change something. I didn't plan on playing in worlds this year but I was going to stop by at least. If FFG doesn't want me to at least THINK that they are concerned about my long-time loyalty to the game, then I guess I can skip that.

Man, the more I think about it, that's such a kick in the nuts! I don't play CoC anymore, but it's always been a fun memory. I still have all my cards (almost a complete playset of every CoC CCG card ever printed up until the LCG took over). If they ended up becoming worthless over time, then that's fine. At least it was fun. If, on the other hand, they have become worthless because FFG offered me the ultimatum of "spend a few hundred dollars to replace these or just watch them plummet"? Wow. Now I have a nice, sorted, alphabetized, sleeved, bindered reminder of a few thousand bucks that I've blown.

Yeah it's a kick in the nuts. I'm kind of wavering on what to do for Worlds as well.

And speaking of the wording of the cards being wrong, the new faq shows that they have the same problem with the new cards. If your trying to fix the problem please spend a little more time in the planning and testing phases to help the player. After the Debacle at last year Worlds, FFG should be doing all they can to help the players.

One other thing: I think the creator of the game made a great game, I think everything corporate has done for the game has put it on life support. Please run back to the creator and put him in charge.

BloodHelmet said:

I just wanted to comment on this specific point made by Bloodhelmet as it has occured now in unquestionably the biggest CCG, Magic: The Gathering.

Their (Magic) most recent core set reprinted cards that they had previously but the new ones are EXACTLY the same as an old card but with a new title. Thus forcing their older players to purchase the new cards if they still want to use them in tournament play. So, that wouldn't suprise me.

Ex. Grizzly Bears now = Runeclaw Bears

Regarding older players - FFG showed us what they think of us - hello Mr Spaniard and your letter -

so basically now it's like ccg cthulhu never existed, and it's only lcg now.

So if you want to play in well-judged ffg tournaments, go and buy 3 core sets. The firm will be very happy, that you buy the same product twice.

I'm only very happy, that in Poland we play by our own rules. And that's the sum of it.