Now this was only an idle thought of mine, but I wanted to see what people thought... Could an Adeptus Mechanicus techpriest ever be made an Inquisitor?

My own initial gut feeling was no, but then given the sweeping powers of the Inquisition, what if a powerful and influential Inquisitor Lord wanted to make a techpriest acolyte a full Inquisitor: who could stop him? Say he had the backing of a couple of full Inquisitors to second and third the nomination?

Does anyone know of any formal reason why a techpriest COULDN'T be an Inquisitor? Is it forbidden? Would he have to leave the AdMech?

Could it happen? In theory, sure. There may even be one or two somewhere already... but that's less than .01% of Inquisitors... way less by my guess. So I'd say, from an exception-based perspective, it could happen. It would just be very rare, because that would mean the Tech-Priest is more loyal to the Inquisition/Imperium as a while than to the Mechanicum, which would be very uncommon. I think such an individual would be very facinating to play, not one who's already there mind you, but as they progress up the chain of the Inquisition from agent to Inquisitor.

I thought in some of the reading I had done into the adeptus mechanicus I saw that there is a cult of the machine equivalent to the Inquisition, but I can't remember where I read that.

Salcor

My understanding of the Mechanicus and the Inquisition is that given the secret nature and dual loyalty of a Tech Priest it is very unlikely that they would be made an Inquisitor. The Mechanicus gaurd their secrets well and jealously and once a Tech Priest has advanced sufficiently to be called Magos they generally want such a skilled and knowledgable individual back. Magos should almost be thought of as Inquisitors in some respects as they tend to be given a wide latitude in what goals they pursue and how they pursue them. Remember that the Mechanicus hold a unique poisition in the Imperium of being more like an allied nation then a subserviant organization.

Even Space Marines take a slight distrust of their Tech Marines and they live and die by trusting in their battle brothers.

But I think it is possible, just that the Tech Priest would always have two monstorously powerful organizations looking over their shoulder rather then just one.

Deimos said:

While I generally agree with you, I'll play Devil's Advocate for a moment.

What if the AM *demanded* to have techpriests among their ranks? I mean, it's not like the empire could just say "no". Of course, you'd be the "token" TP in the conclave, with all the ostricisim that includes.

However, the only organization in the imperium I could think of that would give resistance to the rosette would be the upper echelons of the Adeptus Mechanicus, specifically because they are so secretive. Therefore, a TP Inquisitor would more easily be able to conduct investigations into the Mechanicus, since the AM could trust the Tech Priest to keep any necessary secrets. Think of them as Internal Affairs investigators, charged with Imperial authority.

I doubt you'd interact with them in the average game, but I could see a special cadre of "trusted" inquisitors given unfettered access to the entirity of the Mechanicus' holdings.

Might be a fun concept for a game. Turn things around. A cell of "outsiders" working under a techpriest inquisitor deep inside mechanicus holdings.

I did actually have a character who was a techpriest-Inquisitor for a while, but I killed him off when it became clearer and clearer that the conflicts of interest would be to great for him to function effectively. What could, technically be possible is not always desirable or practically feasible.

Aureus said:

I have played one such individual. Great fun.

I don't see ay reason why not. A techpriest is still a subject of the Imperium, and Inquisitors operat within every aspect of the Imperium. If a techpriest would be deemed worthy and versatile enough then there is no stopping him or her Inquisitor promoting him.

I guess it all bottles down to how smart the techpriest is. If he or she primarily shows his/her loyalty to the Adeptus Mechanicus, then an Inquisitor might not be so keen on bestowing Inquisitorial powers to such an individual. If however the techpriest has been an excellent servant, but at the same time being intuitive and versatile, and while beying loyal to his or her faith he/she isn't a crazed "Omnissiah botherer" then he/she could be a great Inquisitor. Especially since the Adeptus Mechanicus in general isn't that keen to cooperate fully with outsiders (many Inquisitors have been bitching about the servants of Omnissiah being hard to work with because they see to their own interests primarily and to anyone elses secondary). However if an Inquisitor cultivates his or her relationship with one of his acolytes and then promotes the techpriest to Inquisitor, then the former master would have a powwerful ally with both Inquisitorial powers and great influence within the Cult Mechanicus.

Then of course, there are downsides to the prospect as well, but name one career path that doesn't hold ANY downsides to it if it gets promoted to Inquisitor? (Arbitrators could stick a little to hard with Imperial law, Clerics could be a little too zealous, Scum could dabble a little too much with heresy and crime etc.)

It all bottles down to the judgement of the Inquisitor in question...

The Inquisitor's Guide makes a reference to the "Dragon Secutarii" that seem to function a bit like the Inquisition in the hunting of heretics and I seem to recall some article that mentioned a "collegia extremis" within the Mechanicus that dealt with investigating others of tech-heresy. However, a Techpriest could definitely become an Inquisitor instead of joining a Mechanicus body. After all, if three Inquisitors Ordinary or one Inquisitor Lord say he's an Inquisitor, he is.

The only big problem I can see apart from loyalty to the Mechanicus (a problem that would already exist for Clerics with Ecclisiastical ambitions or Arbites and the like) is that the Techpriest might prefer to study what other Inquisitors would destroy. However, many radicals already function like that so it is not an insurmountable obstacle.

Just as with Tech Marines (thanks Deimos) a Magos-Inquisitor would be held at arms length from the most secret Mechanicus rites... if they knew his true allegiance. However many would not and that would give our Magos-Inquisitor unparalleled access to the inner workings of the Mechanicus. Although more unlikely than any other class, a Tech-Priest could do it.

Technically, the IoM and the AM are legally distinct (but allied) empires, so by that logic no, you couldn't have a techpriest Inquisitor. However, I suspect many people would have effectively dual citizenship (a techpriest from an Imperial planet as opposed to an AM fief, for example), and given the broad powers of in Inquisitor it's possible that even those without Imperial citizenship could be raised to the seal. It'd be bloody rare though- imagine a US senator being made a senior agent of MI5

Obviously rare, bordeline possible. But it would be a special case thing.

It's been said before on this topic but the Ad Mech would probably want to wash their own dirt themselves.

Still I could see that. And just because the guy isn't exactly an inquisitor doesn't mean he can't be part of your game. A techpriest of this importance would be as good ally for any inquisitor and an inquisitor needing contacts among the servants of the omnissiah could probably lend him a trusted cell of acolyte in special occasions.

It would be a nice little trick. Using the big scary inquisition to make the ennemy move and use your own team to get them as soon as their head pops out. Of course the acolytes could end up as friendly fire but its all for the good of the machine god

Alasseo said:

Who says that has never happened? Intelligence agencies of different countries tend to be quite sneaky you know.

By the way, I thought I might add that my Techpriest who got promoted is an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor. Ordo Hereticus would've flat out refused him (because of the fact that he betrayed his first Inquisitor who was a witch hunter himself, and also stooped to some pretty radical activities that would cleary be considered as heresy). Ordo Malleus are also pretty hard to get in contact with (since they are such active daemon hunters).

However some double dealing with Ordo Xenos Inquisitors of the Xeno Hybris faction, along with a few contacts within the Magos Biologis, and also being a high ranking Mechanicus Secutor does tend to open interesting doors.

Varnias Tybalt said:

Yeah, but MI5 is internal security and counterintelligence. Anything overseas (aside from Northern Ireland) is the province of MI6.

I don't know. Their brains become more and more compartmentalised and cyberised. At a certain point their minds would be incapable of acting as an inquisitor. They are also extremely visible. It would be virtually impossible for them to do any covert work.

i think that far too many exceptions and peculiarities would have to exist for a techpriest to become an inquisitor.

Hellebore

Hellebore said:

I don't think the fact they may be completely mental would necessarily stop them being an Inquisitor... Many Inquisitors are madder than a box full of hair.

Plus when it comes to looks, there are some VERY freaky Inquisitors around: look at Haldane: during the latter part of his career he rebuilt his face to resemble a hunting dog. Globus Vaarek from Purge the Unclean is a fat guy in a rubber suit with robot legs. Ravenor is a large floating black box. He stands out a bit. Inquisitors who are physically distinctive can't do covert work, agreed, but they just recruit acolytes to do it for them.

I think the general consensus seems to be that it's POSSIBLE for a techpriest to be an Inquisitor, but extremely unlikely and not always a desirable thing anyway. I guess the idea reminds me of the "abomination" from the old White Wolf Vampire and Werewolf games: a vampire werewolf. A theoretical possibility but statistically incredibly rare, and an outcast from both.

Hellebore said:

Being extremely visible never stopped Gideon Ravenor from being an Inquisitor, and he was pretty much confined to his life-support chair. Doing covert missions is what their agents are for if they can't do it themselves.

My Inquisitor PC that was formerly a techpriest (well technically he still is, but he holds a pretty unstable relationship with some important power groups within the Cult Mechanicus) has been cybernetically resurrected to escape a fate worse than death. His current form sort of looks like what Cain looked like in the movie Robocop 2. It's a mechanical body, housing a brain and some portions of a human head as well. And the brain isn't very sane either. 50+ Insanity points will do that to you. Luckily he has Rite of pure thought, which keeps the irrational outbursts of insanity under relative control (although he is sometimes plagued by vivid nightmares that are hard to wake up from, meaning that his "bedchambers" must consist of reinforced steel bulk-heads to withstand his violent thrashing).

You could pretty much say that he is a dreadnought, although slightly smaller and with quite a few mechadendrites. Naturally this form make's it impossible to do covert work, meaning he has to let his strange group of acolytes do it for him. However, being the paranoid and insane bastard that he is, he would never put THAT much trust into any single individual. That is why he frequently hack into security systems to monitor his agents' progress, and also send out a small army of cameleoline enhanced servo skulls that follow the acolytes wherever they go, sending a live feed back to headquarters (usually located in a starship in orbit around the world in question).

When the covert operatives have managed to root out whatever it is their master want's to find, he come down in person and wreak havoc on the perpetrators they are hunting for. Somtimes accompanied by a small retinue of Deathwatch Space Marines (yes, he is an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor) or Praetorian battle servitors.

That MO, have worked so far. But since I have mostly taken over the GM-role when that particular Inquisitor is involved nowadays, I will of course spice it up a notch, demanding that both the acolytes and their master have to deviate from their standard MO. More fun that way.

Their mind fracturing and being compartmentalised wasn't an argument for insanity, rather an argument for an over specialised brain. Their minds become computers, they remove their emotional components and increase their storage with emgram chips. They become living repositories of knowledge.

That sort of mind is not really conducive to bieng an inquisitor.

Hellebore

Hellebore said:

Really? A completely emotionless, cold, caluculating, remorseless mind capable of sorting through vast amounts of data almost instantly would be detrimental to being an Inquisitor? It seems to me that it would be a *perfect* inquisitor. Slap in a skillsoft with a litany of crimes against the Emperor punishable by death, and send the dude out. He won't be subtle probably, but at that point he wouldn't have to be.

You actually strengthened the argument for a techpriest inquisitor.

Again, I would say that while they exist, they generally tend the Mechanicus flock, and the Inquisition stays out of the AM's life otherwise, and the techpreist inquisitor doesn't really go anywhere else.

TheFlatline said:

In order for one to be able to act as an inquisitor all the information that defines them would have to be removed. They become more machine and less human every year and their minds become more and more focused. Says so right on the tin.

An inquisitor needs a varied skill set. They don't get elevated to that level without the skills required to be an inquisitor in the first place. Tech priests are simply not built to handle a position of inquisitor. Even as tech priests they have enormous power and wield it with cold calculation. Magi will slaughter anyone that gets between them and an STC as it is mathematically sound.

Tech priests are academics taken to the nth degree, where their ivory tower is made of machinery and replaces their brain. They live for nothing else. there is no space in their mind for anything not of the mechanicus.

Hellebore

Hellebore said:

Hey, I would like to disagree. I do believe that a Tech Priest Inquisitor is quite possible. The Adeptus Mechanicus have different factions or departments within its walls. Some believe that the Emperor is Omnimesiah, others do not. For those that believe this it would make perfect sense to hunt for heretic's that oppose the emperor, even be logical. And as the Adeptus Mechanicus has different branches, why could this inquisitor not have been a Skitarii or something else? It is usually the loyalty that makes it difficult for Tech Priests to become Inquisitors since the inquisition has a hard time knowing who the Tech Priest will bow for.

Allrab

I fail to see why a tech-priest should be ill-suited to the office. The Mechanicus is all about using the right tool for the right task. They wouldn't take a normal Magos and his "compartmentalized" mind and get him a seal, they'd groom one (or more likely a few dozen, to find the perfect one) for the post, for example by loaning them to normal inquisitors to serve as acolytes. Their implants and mind modifications would be custom-tailored to the necessities the post of an inquisitor holds. Assuming otherwise is like saying "The AdMech can't design a good hammer, because they build saws and everyone knows that a saw can't be a good hammer."

So to allow tech priests to become inquisitors we have to make a special kind of inquisitor tech priest? None of the ranks of tech priest given for the career are described in any other way except as standard mechanicus ranks.

Hellebore

Hellebore said:

Or swoop the techpriest up long before he or she has a chance to have his/her mind too compartmntalized to a typical Mechanicus role, and the Inquisitor can start to shape the techpriest into becoming a specialized tool of the Inquisition.

Also you really shouldn't take the rank names and descriptions too litteraly from the rulebook. For instance it's quite possible for a guardsman to become a "sergeant" or "liutenant" without ever having dealt orders to another man in his/her entire life. It's also perfectly possible for an Arbitrator to become a Judge without knowing anything about law or bureaocracy what so ever.

The rank names can hardly be considered as actually describing the PC's status and rank within their past organisation. There are simply too many inconsistencies.

Varnias Tybalt said:

Sure but there is a pretty big difference jumping from 'standard techpriest descriptions throughout ranks' to 'special inquisitorial techpriest that isn't written about or described anywhere'. Occam's razor favours the first, irrespective of how literal those ranks really are.

Besides which, a Magos Inquisitor will by all rights be more powerful than a normal inquisitor (despite how bizarre that sounds). The inquisition has trouble with the admech (says so right in the tech priest's career description) because of their independent status and massive power base. A techpriest groomed for the inquisition would have all the power of an inquisitor AND the freedom to move through admech held areas not only with ease but with encouragement and support.

You'd need a rebellious techpriest the admech doesn't like to become an inquisitor to produce an inquisitor of the same 'level' as any other inquisitor.

A magos has an absurd amount of power amongst the admech. Capable of requisitioning space ships, troops, materiel etc for their researchs and/or explorations.

Of all the acolytes techpriests are the most transient and least affiliated with the inquisition. They are far more a 'hire on a case by case basis' than any of the other careers. They can and often do go against their inquisitor when their own goals conflict with his. No other acolyte would try that on an inquisitor.

As far as I am concerned, making a techpriest an inquisitor is like making an inquisitor a techpriest. Neither faction in their right mind would willingly do it, because of the massive power balance shift that would occur and the characters in question would already have diverged too much to make them suitable, unique 'inquisitor techpriest' or no.

Hellebore

Hellebore said:

The very arguments you mention are the same arguments that I used FOR the idea. Many Inquisitors have felt frustrated over the fact that they can't hold the same influence over the AdMech like they hold over the rest of the Imperium. Some Inquisitors would like the AdMech to be purged, while other, smarter Inquisitors by having an inside man within the cult. And the stronger in fluence this inside man has, the better access to the secrets of the Mechanicus the Inquisitor would have.

Oh, and also it's not that the Adeptus Mechanicus will automatically know that one of their former subjects has become an Inquisitor. His or her status would only be revealedm if he/she flashes the rosette (which would be kind of unecessary for must circumstances since a magos has access to most areas within the cult anyway).

Also you haven't yet explained why a character would have "diverged" too much in their way of thinking. I read how you percieve what a Magos is like, but does that mean that ALL Magii are like lobotomized cogitators? Hardly true, since there are plenty of Techpriests described in many sources that do not follow the norm. Ciaphas Cain having met with an impressive asortment of very human techpriests...

So to allow tech priests to become inquisitors we have to make a special kind of inquisitor tech priest? None of the ranks of tech priest given for the career are described in any other way except as standard mechanicus ranks.

Neither are any of the other ranks - and still I don't believe that standard Administratum adepts learn inquisitorial ciphers.

Funnily enough, I haven't read of your "compartmentilization" in the rank descriptions either and the Magos Errant is very explicitly described as a general Troubleshooter of the Mechanicus, supposed to deal with threats interior and exterior in non-standard ways, which sounds like perfect Inquisitor material to me.

A magos has an absurd amount of power amongst the admech. Capable of requisitioning space ships, troops, materiel etc for their researchs and/or explorations.

So has a regular inquisitor, except he'll have to ask a little more politely when he's talking to the AdMech. Every inquisitor will have areas where he has more influence than others and areas where he will only be heeded by the power of his seal.