Hi all.

I have a question regarding the Takedown talent. Our groups Arbitrator is about to take that talent, but wants a clarification beforehand. Is using the Takedown talent considered an Attack action thus allowing no further Attack action (eg. Standard Attack) with the reamining half action in the round? Our Arbitrator argues it would make no sense if he would not be allowed to make a Standard attack afterwards because the target can only be stunned for a single round thereby circumventing any further advantage the Arbitrator could have that round (ie. the target simply uses the Stand action). Furthermore he argues it would be of no real advantage in comparison to the Knock-down and Stun actions everyone can make use of irrespective of skills and talents. So is it an Attack action no further (half action-) Attack action can follow in the same round or is it rather sort of a Miscellaneous action that can be followed by a (half action-) Attack action of any kind?

Thanks in advance for the help.

An interesting question. I have recently taken the Takedown talent myself, so let's take some thinking on it.

It seems to me, it's not an attack action. Most likely, the designers regard it as a completely different kind of action (like Move or Standard Attack ), for which the Takedown talent is simply a prerequisite. I believe, otherwise they would have written that it when taking down the opponent you have to make a Standard Attack first, much like in the description of the Grapple action in page 197: " You can attempt a Grapple with either Charge or Standard Attack ", which SHOULD be considered as an attack action.

Therefore, it doesn't seem to me that Takedown is an attack action.

How does it seem to you?

No, it is most definitly not a standard attack. It is a Stun Action (pg 191), however, while the stun action is traditionally a Full Action, it seems that Takedown allows the action to be taken as a half action without the -20 to the WS check to stun the opponent.

Edit: On closer examination, it there are a few small differences in the handling of the toughness check to avoid being stunned. It could be another case of No Editor for the Core Book or it could be two different actions? If the action described in the Takedown test is different, why have two different kinds of actions which achieve the same result with only minor differences (and then specifically make Takedown almost necessary to preform a Stun...)?

Graver said:

Blah I think it is just another case of No Editor. Man I wish FF did a better job going over the book once they got it

It looks like Takedown was ment to be the gateway talent for the stun action I would say you should use the stun action's rules but as the half action like Takedown describes and without the -20ws when you have the talent (as it says in the stun action). I also would say leave this as an attack action because you get a number of rounds of stun equal to the difference between the to special rolls. Also this is infact an attack, you are testing WS to hit hte person and you have to hit hard if you want to stun this guy (puting your full SB into it).

Thats atleast what I would do, as it is straight from the book it looks like yet another unfinished and polished rule >.>

Our group runs its as the "takedown" action. Its like stun but actually manifests in a completely separate action. And as the rules says you may not attempt the same action twice in a round, you could use takedown (half action) then attack (half action) the same target right afterward...

Which has just made me think of this little question.... Can you use takedown (half action) on one target, then try to takedown (half action) another?

And to finish - Does anyone else think the name of the talent is misleading?.. I bought it without reading the rules (doh) and thought it was some form of knockout attack (since Stun and Knockdown already exist in the combat rules). What should it be called?

S.K.

Solomon Kane said:

Yes, but only if you are in melee with another opponent. Shooting outside the melee is not allowed, AFAIR.

egalor said:

Um no you can't... the game states very clearly you can not make the same action twice in the same round unless of course you have an ability that breaks this (ex swift and lightning attack).

karn987 said:

Oops, I've missed that he wanted to make a second Takedown attempt in a round (not just a Standard Attack ). So, no same actions in one round, this is what the rules state.

karn987 said:

But you cant use the "Multiple Attacks" action to do anything other than simple attacks - as takedown (and indeed, stun, disarm & what have you) is a separate ACTION it makes it mutually exclusive.

I said that, I was stipulating where I thought they may have gotten confused. >.> thought it was clear.

thats true... hehe, it will teach me to read posts properly in future.. Sorry.

S.K.