bogi_khaosa said:

Then again if it's supposed to be a niche ammo, and the fact that it costs 100 thrones per round (that's roughly 5-6 times as much as a regular bolter round), you'd expect a bit more bang for your buck. I can live with the tearing quality going, since the round doesn't explode any more, but a significtan boost in PEN (at least for bolters) should be reasonable for ONE HUNDRED THRONES PER ROUND, dont you agree?

Oh and I resent the analogy by calling a BBL loaded bolter "basically an oversized hancannon". Handcannons fire slugs of metal. Hyper density penetrators are supposed to be... well... Hyper density penetrators! They are made of a lot more dense materials than normal lead, and should have more penetration as a result. Compare it to a cannon on a naval battleship loaded with a high explosive shell and an Armour Penetrating shell. The first will hopefully punch through and probably explode in a spectacular manner, the second can sometimes have enogh strength to blow a hole through one side of the ship and even come out the other end before exploding if the target ship is too flimsy.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way -- that if it is avaliable for a bolter and expensive for a bolter, it must also be really useful for a bolter. Logically, this doesn't make sense, because, not only is it firing the same ammo in the case of both bolters and SP weapons*, since it's even more expensive than standard SP ammo, it should also be correspondingly better for SP weapons than it is for bolters. SP weapons should get Tearing x4!!!!!

I think the designers listed "bolter" simply because it makes sense that a big slug (OK, a hyperdensiity slug) should be firable from a bolter, at least once you put jets on it (hmmm, that should make it cost more...). It doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it. The LBB fired from a bolter is no different than the same thing fired from an autorifle, except larger caliber. EDIT: Hunting rifle I mean, not autorifle.

Actually, it's still a good idea even without the Tearing x A Billion feature. It raises the Penetration to 6! And still has Tearing.

Hi guys, first post here.

While we're on the subject of bolters and their ammo, is there any reason to ever use anything besides Inferno shells? The ammo is already prohibitively expensive, and the Inferno ammo costs 2 - two - Thrones more. Basically it's a free chance to set someone on fire, which is pretty useful in most circumstances.

Of course, sometimes having a blazing enemy running around can be detrimental if the GM feels nasty and quarters are very confined, but otherwise...seems like a done deal to me.

Nihilius said:

Totally OT, but: Good to see you make it here at last Nihilius (assuming you are the Nihilius from the Dark Reign chat )

And I agree with Nih. When I've had bolters, I've bought nothing other than Inferno rounds.

MILLANDSON said:

I'm afraid not, re: Dark Reign chat. I'm just a random guy from Norway

No worries Just that I have a friend over there with exactly the same username

Nihilius said:

One, flame weapons can cause a lot of collateral damage. This may or may not be important depending on whether or not you are standing on a large pile of hay.

Two, the damage type changes from X to E.

Depending on situation, these may be important issues, or not.

MILLANDSON said:

Yeah it's one of the names in the DH Core Book so I imagine that's why.

Incidentally it's also the name of my newly created character. Rolled for a name just for fun, and thought the name Nihilius suited a noble-born, egotistical, politically-minded Cleric very well

bogi_khaosa said:

Oh right, missed the X to E part. The hay part is of course relevant sometimes, thus 'most circumstances'

Nihilius said:

No way! I have a PC just like that. But his name is Vincentius, and although he might be somewhat egotistical he's a charming, silvertounged devil of a nobleman/cleric.

Ain't they extraordinarily fun, but hard to play?

Varnias Tybalt said:

Haha, nice coincidence. Don't tell me you have the 'Great Chantries of Tarsus' background package as well...

And yes, I love playing a nobleman cleric. Abusing the rest of the cadre (I was obviously appointed the leader) is fun as well

I think this thread is now officially side-tracked :/

Nihilius said:

Of course I did. That was the whole point.

Nihilius said:

Well, our cell/cadre doesn't have a leader really, since we often take orders from higher ranking Interrogators and Inquisitors. However, when we do have to operate without the guidance of senior agents, the one considered most profficient at the task at hand is usually the one the others will have to listen too. For instance, when we had to deal with scions of a Navis Nobilitae family, etiquette and proper manners were of the utmost importance. Which naturally meant that the more badly dressed acolytes (which included pretty much everyone else in the group) had to go shopping for some new threads in accorance to my PC's instructions.

Another fun quirk about him is that he isn't really the brave fighter, so when the bullets start flying he tends to hide behind the butch, musclebound Guardswoman feral worlder in the group, while taking some pot-shots of his own at the enemy.

Nihilius said:

Yes, my bad. Back on track then!

Nihilius said:

This makes me wonder: when a bolter is loaded with Inferno Sells, would it still ave the tearing quality?

I know it states in the errata that the bolt weapon its self gets the tearing quality, but it also states that the tearing quality should read as “...devices, often using multitudes of fast moving jagged teeth or fragmented or explosive ammunition to rip into flesh and bone.” By that, bolters have tearing because of their explosive ammunition. If that is replaced with ammo that simply burns, then they might lose their tearing ability and a bit of their punch for the trade off of setting tings on fire. That could be a reason...

Graver said:

Well, considering that a bolt shell has a pretty small charge, i'd say that in order for the Inferno Shell to actually do some use, the bolt shell would have to explode anyway in order to spread the liquid fuel to actually do some useful burning damage. But since the shell is crammed with more liquid fuel than explosives, this changes the damage type from X to E, but still counts as being tearing (while the explosion might not be as big as before, your body will still be perforated by the shrapnel of a large metal slug along with burning fuel).

It doesn't say that it changes damage from X to E.

Word for word quote from the rulebook (and a search in the errata doesn't turn up any hits on inferno shells):

"These shells contain a phosphorous gel that ignites on contact with the target. A target it by an inferno shell must make an Agility Test or catch on fire, in addition to suffering damage as normal. Inferno shells may also be used to set thing on fire besides people at the discretion of the GM."

Graspar said:

bogi_khaosa,

spreading lies and disinformation is surely the work of a heretic!

Guess that settles it, at least for my part!

Graspar said:

True enough.

I thought it was a little wierd at first, since the Tempest shells listed in IH changes the damage type from X to E, and they cost like 250 thrones a pop. Seemed a bit wierd that yoy could buy pretty much the same thing in the rulebook but with radically reduced costs, but I didn't feel like looking it up myself at the time.

Btw just to state again, yes all bolt weapons should have tearing because it is more of a quality of the ammunition and a defining factor in what makes a bolt gun compared to a rocket propelled SP weapon. (Yeah I know they basically are but thats the point, basically and actually are not the same here)

The only exception would be that home made Bolt pistol in IH, the one that uses exploding flares...