Is it possible for a ship to shoot at the same of another ship with two different arcs? Like in the first picture. The SD front is in the front arc of the corvette and the side arc. but i think that the yellow dots wouldnt quite work...

Remember that your own hull does not block line of sight (yellow dot to yellow dot). A better example is pic 2 (because I can't tell the arc in pic 1 with certainty) - in pic 2, the corvette's front and right (prow and starboard) arc could both target the left (port) arc of the Vic.

Is it possible for a ship to shoot at the same of another ship with two different arcs? Like in the first picture. The SD front is in the front arc of the corvette and the side arc. but i think that the yellow dots wouldnt quite work...

Just to clarify, range, firing arc, and line of sight are all determined independently of each other, but all three must be valid.

I still find it strange and counter intuitive that you are in range while measuring outside your firearc. How can something be in range when its outside the area you can actually shoot?

I see it as the physical range of the weapon/sensors, but restricted by the firing arc it is capable of (i.e. if that gun could turn a bit more it would be in range). In game terms, it simplifies the attack process - you measure range, then work out which arc(s) you can fire from/to.

This added layer of complexity is just a natural result of having attacks come from 4 possible zones and targeting 4 possible zones. It could never be a simple as in X-Wing where you only measure to one zone.

I still find it strange and counter intuitive that you are in range while measuring outside your firearc. How can something be in range when its outside the area you can actually shoot?

Ah but it isn't just Arc that determines the area you can actually shoot, what a ship can attack is a fuzzy zone loosely based around its Arc, but LOS and Range also help define that zone.

With regards to the range question

Also a new dabbler to this game and glad not to be the only one having run into the challenge of how to handle the Trinity of Line-of-Sight, Arc, and Range. It seems that all elements of the Trinity must clear the tests and that they do so individually of each others. I think the rules are written relatively clear-cut, but I still miss some elements being stressed more than they are; even more so being in-bound from X-Wing with familiar, and perhaps different, routines of how to shot at my enemies.

Your illustrations are really great, but looking at the situation in picture 1. and 3. and finding them pretty straight-forward, I do wonder if the same rules hold true if the shortest distance between the attacking Hull Point and the targetted Hull Point is not within the firing arc (as it is on field 3. of the guide above).

This would look something like this:

Assuming that the Corvette wants to use it's forward Hull Point to fire a salvo at the starboard Hull Point of the Star Destroyer. The white line shows the firing arc of the Corvette's forward Hull, however the closest point between the attacking and the targetted Hull Points is outside the firing arc. The colours designate range, so my question is if this shot would be at Medium (blue) or Long range (red)?

From the rules as written it looks to me like Arc and Range are checked individually and by different means. If that holds true then the shot will be taken at Medium and not Long Range. However, it feels a somewhat counter-intuitive (again, especially being used to X-Wing firing arcs), so should I listen to my intuition or my logic?

On page 14 of the Core rules, in the "Measuring Firing Arc and Range" inset, you'll note in the subsequent illustration, that just the tip of the corvette's hull zone is within "close" range, the majority of the Hull zone being at "medium" range - but the shot is described as being at "close" range. Note especially that the measurement in the diagram for this range measurement is from closest point in the attacker's firing arc, to closest point in the defender's hull zone.

Firing Arcs settles this question: Is the hull zone I am firing at within my firing arc?

If the answer is "Yes", the next question to resolve is Line Of Sight. You cannot fire through at a defender's hull zone if the shot passes through another hull zone on the same defender. If that was the case, you would not be able to target the selected hull zone because it isn't in Line Of Sight.

If a target is within the firing arc, and the Line of Sight does not pass through another of the defenders (or any intervening ship's) hull zone, you may take the shot.

Only after these two checks are affirmed do you determine range - and range is measured as the shortest distance any point on the defender's hull zone, and the hull zone on the attacker's ship whose firing arc the shot is firing from.

In the illustration in question, since Attack Range is measured from the closest point in the attacker's firing arc, to closest point in the defender's hull zone, the range for the shot is medium range, even though the firing arc only passes through the defender's hull at long range.

To sum it up: Firing Arcs and Line of Sight determine if you have a shot. Attack Range is then measured independent of Firing Arcs and LOS, from the closest point in the attacker's firing arc, to closest point in the defender's hull zone.

This may seem counter-intuitive, but the rules do not link Firing Arcs and Line of Sight to the Attack Range. Maybe they will in the future, but for now, would say that the shot would be medium range.

Armada's rules for establishing firing arcs, firing ranges, and lines of sight are somewhat complicated. I've thrown a few diagrams together that (I hope) explain them better than the rulebook does.

The full album is here: http://imgur.com/a/fs1ni

Excellent. I will print this and add it to my rule book.

Page 19 is the expanded rules, so taking the rules earlier still apply. Page 8 and 13, you still need to stay in arc to fire. I think you may have to add that part into your pdf

Page 19 is the expanded rules, so taking the rules earlier still apply. Page 8 and 13, you still need to stay in arc to fire. I think you may have to add that part into your pdf

I also think that the range check is independant from the arc and LOS check. So the shortest distance can be outisde the firing arc.

All other Armada Players I know won't accept this. They repeatedly argue that the attack has to be "in arc AND in range". For me, this AND only says that two otherthise indepenadant criteria have to be fulfilled. Not that the range measurement has to be in arc.

At least a clarification is needed.

I also think that the range check is independant from the arc and LOS check. So the shortest distance can be outisde the firing arc.

All other Armada Players I know won't accept this. They repeatedly argue that the attack has to be "in arc AND in range". For me, this AND only says that two otherthise indepenadant criteria have to be fulfilled. Not that the range measurement has to be in arc.

At least a clarification is needed.

I'm not sure if it's a hangover from range measurement in X-wing that gives you this impression, but the rules explicitly state the opposite of your position.

Rules Reference pg2 under the "Attack" heading it is the first bullet point under "1. Declare Target": "If the attacker is a ship, the defending squadron or hull zone must be inside the attacking hull zone's firing arc and at attack range of the attacking hull zone ."

@whistler11

That is exactly what I'm taking about. Yes, the attack has to be in the firing arc. Yes, it has to be in range.

But it is nowhere stated that the measurement has to be made in the firing arc. Only that it has to be the shortest distance from attacking to defending hull zone. See "measuring firing arc and range.

If I would orient me on the X-Wing rules I would say "the range has to be measured in the firing arc as long as it is no turret weapon".

But this is not X-Wing. As explained before the three requirements "in arc", LOS and "in range" are independant conditions.

@whistler11

That is exactly what I'm taking about. Yes, the attack has to be in the firing arc. Yes, it has to be in range.

But it is nowhere stated that the measurement has to be made in the firing arc. Only that it has to be the shortest distance from attacking to defending hull zone. See "measuring firing arc and range.

If I would orient me on the X-Wing rules I would say "the range has to be measured in the firing arc as long as it is no turret weapon".

But this is not X-Wing. As explained before the three requirements "in arc", LOS and "in range" are independant conditions.

The original rules I quoted in my post above state that the attack must be "...at attack range of the attacking hull zone" , to me that is pretty straight forward.

But to go further, if we look under the 'Measuring firing arc and range' heading (as you suggested) this is further reinforced by the statement: "To measure attack range from a ship, measure from the closest point of the attacking hull zone".

So while all three checks are (somewhat) independent, it is explicitly stated that while measuring range you must measure from the attacking hull zone.

I hope this Picture clarifies my question.

Corvette front section fires at Star Destroyers front section.

Red line is the firing arc.

Blue line is the shortest distance from attackrs zone to defenders zone. You can see it crosses the attackers arc and is "out or arc".

The green line is the shortest distance while being in the attackers firing arc.

It looks like you are both (Whistler11 and Udo77) are saying the same thing, yet some how manage to interpret the other one to have a different opinion

In your latest picture Udo, range for a shot from the corvettes front arc to the SDs front hull zone would be measured acording to the blue line.

In your latest picture Udo, range for a shot from the corvettes front arc to the SDs front hull zone would be measured acording to the blue line.

The blue line is out of arc for the front hull section of the corvette to the front section of the VSF.

In your latest picture Udo, range for a shot from the corvettes front arc to the SDs front hull zone would be measured acording to the blue line.

The blue line is out of arc for the front hull section of the corvette to the front section of the VSF.

Range is not reliant on Arc.

I hope this Picture clarifies my question.

Corvette front section fires at Star Destroyers front section.

Red line is the firing arc.

Blue line is the shortest distance from attackrs zone to defenders zone. You can see it crosses the attackers arc and is "out or arc".

The green line is the shortest distance while being in the attackers firing arc.

Awesome picture!

Sorry, I have misinterpreted what you were saying. I thought your measurement was beginning outside the attacking hull zone, and simply going from the closest point on your ship to the defender. So as if in your diagram the Corvette's side arc was firing on the VSD's side, but still using the blue line as the closest point.

I think as you've laid out the blue line is correct, although I can definitely see why other people you have encountered were unsure. Clarification would be good, as I think it is another example of players thinking how a rule should work without the rule actually existing (much like anti-squadron fire vs engaged fighters).

In your latest picture Udo, range for a shot from the corvettes front arc to the SDs front hull zone would be measured acording to the blue line.

The blue line is out of arc for the front hull section of the corvette to the front section of the VSF.

Range is not reliant on Arc.

As has been stated Arc, Range, and LoS all have separate conditions. None are worded as reliant on the other in the way you describe.

Is any part of the defending hull-zone in the Attack hull-zones arc? Yes.

Is there LoS? Yes.

At what range? To find out measure the closest point of the attack hull zone to the closest point of the defending hull zone. And the important thing is it does not say closest point within the firing arc.

As ScottieATF said, to attack a ship it needs to be within your fire arc, within in LOS and in range. These three factors all have different conditions to check and it is all three together that determine a legitimate target.

I agree it seems un-proper and I'd not mind if it were to get errata'd but I equally don't mind playing it as written for now.

What rule are you looking at? I'm looking at the RR guide entry on Attack, which requires the target be in arc and LOS. Why would range suddenly ignore arc?

The range-measuring line never cared about firing arcs, just like the sight-line never cared about firing arcs. The rulebook gives explicit instructions on how to measure range, and those instructions don't include any restrictions on where the range line can go.

Where do the rules say that range does not depend on arc? It doesn't. Counterpoint: it never specifically says it has to be in arc either - that's why clarification is needed ( from FFG).

However, the LtP guide on Attacking does say this on page 13:

"The defending hull zone must be inside the attacking hull zone’s firing arc (see “Firing Arcs and Hull Zones” on page 9).

In addition, the defending hull zone must be at attack range."

Notice: range is "in addition" to being on arc. To me, range must be in arc, but I see why an FAQ entry is needed.

Rules as writen, it is clear what and how we measure. No FAQ is needed for that.

Many has a problem accepting the range measurement being independent of the arc measurement, this might be cause for an FAQ entry.

The intent might be that range should be measured in arc (but claiming to know that it is is just rediculus, none of us can read the minds of the developers), and in that case an FAQ entry (or actualy an errata) is needed.