So, with us firmly in Q3, I look at "Knowledge is Power" and note that I havent been reading either Damned Cities or the Radicals Handbook for the last few months. And no mention of Dead Stars coming out in the next month or so.

What has happened FFG? Has Rogue Trader taken all your resources to rush out for GenCon? Will these other books be out at GenCon? Will they be out this year?

Thx.

SJE

SJE said:

I'll bet a few thrones on this alternative. Anyone betting against?

It seems like the Warhammer 40.000 creative team is a bit stretched over too many tasks at once. Getting a butt-load of expansions out for one RPG while at the same time designing and writing an entirely new one seems a bit hard...

Which is why im getting even more sceptical towards the notion of Deathwatch being created. It's not that I wish to rob all the space marine fans out there of the product, but if writing it will mean that expansions for Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader will have to take secondary priority then I'd much rather see more stuff being released for DH and RT and letting Deathwatch get scrapped altogether.

And suddenly I just felt like a lot of genetically enhanced faces stare angrily at me, and a whole lot of bolters being trained on my back.

I'd rather see a 50:50 release schedule for DH and RT for a couple more years before FFG even START on DW. I'd rather see some good supplements for both those systems before they start a third...

I do think FFG will get around to DW, though.

Varnias Tybalt said:

I couldn't agree more. I am normally quite patient, but i want those DH expansions asap (but then again rather late in good qualty that a rushed release)

And I could live without Deathwatch if it meant they could focus more on DH & RT.

I think we all need to take in the perspective of the FFG team, they have so much to work on they have RT, warhammer Invasion, the Warhammer fantasy chaos game, and then supplements for DH which there are plenty already out.

i think we should just be patient and give them some time to make a quality product, i for one am going to be incredibly patient with the FFG team and love RT, all the DH supplements, and hopefully DW which i hope will not be scrapped

DONT GIVE UP FFG I HAVE FAITH IN YOU

Eh, if Death-watch got scrapped for better quality Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader products, it's got my approval in my books.

Tetragon Tanebrae said:

Im also usually the more patient type. It's just that, the way the current expansions for Dark Heresy has been written, FFG have cleverly made sure that the fans still want/need more, instead of making completely sure that every expansion so far will please the players for a few months to come. Which is probably a good tactic, especially ue to the financial crisis and all, when you really need to make sure to have a relatively stable base of costumers that will buy your products so you don't have to make to much of a gamble of any release.

The downside however is that the customers will still feel that something is missing from the product line, and of course grow increasingly impatient due to delays of products promised to be released several weeks ago.

My vote is in the DH/RT camp too. Im still getting over the sheer amount of mistakes in the DH core rulebook. My book is the bible for the 3 other copies in our group as Im the one anal enough to write most of the corrections in. Thankfully my IH was the (mostly) correct printing.

But I guess after waiting TWENTY YEARS for this and making due with Necromunda-WFB hybrids a quarter or two wont kill me. But Im not getting any younger. Would like to see them before I lose whats left of my eyesight!

I don't think there's been any reason yet to condemn Deathwatch. There are few if any details on it, just some unclear statements from Ross and the hopeful raving of a couple of vocal Space Marine fans.

But we really don't know what it's going to be. I trust FFG to make a good game, everything I've seen so far suggests they are the equal of a game that features Space Marines. There are depths of narrative that haven't been reached by the novels or previous fluff that I'm confident FFG can expand upon.

There's also the fact that the Deathwatch are the Chamber militant of Ordo Xenos. This suggests that while Space Marines are going to be a major part of the game they are not going to be the only aspect of the game. There are a lot of things on or near the same level as an Astartes, Inquisitors for instance, Temple Assassins, Alpha level Psykers, your PC with 30 thousand experience into him...

Keep an open mind since we really don't know what DW is going to be.

As for the slippage of the release date, I think it is a combination of the staff being over-loaded with both DH and RT and FFGs regular habit of missing their release windows. In any case, I hate the wait too but it's better than these guys releasing a sub-par product. Maybe the success of RT will allow them to expand their writing team.

-Yeah

Fideru said:

**** straight, especially since playable Inquisitor's (and possibly playable Temple Assassins) will be in Ascension.

Ferau said:

Keeping an open mind is a virtue I try my best to live by. However even us reasonably open-minded folk must retain our right to be able to be sceptical towards certain ideas and notions, don't we?

At the same time I do not believe in giving praise/condemnation on beforehand either. And I think that if some of the creative writers at FFG even bothers to read my critique towards their current products as well as the ideas for coming products, they would have much more to gain from me pointing out the flaws of certain ideas, rather than me just saying that im confident in their abilities. Sure, it's nice to hear praise for what ou have done, but what do praise really do to make you want to improve what you do?

And while I am aware of that I probably come off as sort of a whiny ***** when speaking of the proposed concept behind Deathwatch, and many would probably like to say: "Put up, or shut up Varnias Tybalt, you whiny maggot!"

I want to make it clear that I do have ideas of my own (meaning: im not just ranting and whining). Unfortunately they do not involve much in the way of Space Marines at all (especially not as player characters), which of course, the Space Marine fanboys would severely dislike. But I think they do hold some interesting roleplaying value which could appeal to quite a few players out there.

As for FFG expanding their writing team, I really hope they will be able to do so. Many release-dates have been missed so far, and it seems to hint that the current team is a bit overworked at the moment. Perhaps it would be a good idea to looking into the creative writers on the forums? There are many companies that supports an extensive fan creation network which keeps their products alive with fresh material. ANd when you visit the forums concerning a certain game you knwo that you'll find people willing to really pour their heart and soul into it like they do for their private gaming groups already.

MILLANDSON said:

You should look at the information on Ascension again Millandson. You can play an Interrogator for sure, but there

is no reason to believe that you will be able to play an Inquisitor or a Temple Assassin. Especially

since Temple Assassins are trained from a young age. Ascension is all about progression

for existing DH PCs. At least from what has been revealed thus far.

I do understand that everyone here has a picture in their mind of what the future of WH40K RP looks like. Personally, I see Astartes in our future. My players love to reminisce about their time with Brother Sergeant Agamorr. I know they're excited about exploring Ordo Xenos further in all of its facets. I think there's a lot of potential there. Hopefully time will tell.

I'd actually love Deathwatch. I'm not even remotely interested in Star Trek In The Imperium.

I'd happily scrap Deathwatch however for the Ascention book that would let my PCs keep playing.

Ferau said:

Except... Ross has said that they are in Ascension.

http://darkreign40k.com/forum/index.php?topic=2504.0

MILLANDSON said:

I know it wasn't your intent.. but thanks for alerting me that the chat was happening! I would definitely like to show for that. :-)

.. now I just have to figure out if I even have IRC installed on this computer yet... and get the details for the channel..

MILLANDSON said:

Uhm...

-When talking about Ascension, Ross mentioned he was currently working on a write up of the Vindicare Assassin. When asked if it was as an NPC or PC, he stated he couldn't give any details like that...but his tone of voice led the interviewers at least to believe he meant PC. (I'm taking a grain of salt, m'self. We'll see.)

Interpreting a tone of voice is not the same thing as actually getting an explicit statement.

Just sayin'

Varnias Tybalt said:

If DW isn't released, it won't be because they want to concentrate on RT and DH supplements. It'll be because they decided to pull the entire 40k RPG line.

By the time Deathwatch comes out, we probably won't be seeing any DH supplements anymore, or at least not more than one a year. The RT supplements will also be drying up. DW will give FFG a new corebook to sell and an excuse for a whole new range of supplements. They won't pass that up unless they think the 40k market has completly dried up.

macd21 said:

40K market drying up?

From an RPG standpoint I find it somewhat hard to believe. Remember that Dark Heresy has so far only explored ONE Imperial Sector, and there are quite a few more sectors with their own unique backstory and quirks one could release supplements for, for years to come.

That would be a more interesting marketing direction rather than giving up on Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader in favor of releasing Deathwatch.

In fact, I would be interested in DW. Most of all, I'm interested, how they are going to realistically design the gameplay from the point of view of a superhuman being designed solely for fighting. Is this going to be an RPG at all or just hack & slash? I'm curious. And this is not to mention the background materials, which could be hopefully usable in DH/RT.

On the other hand, I fully understand that the release of a 3rd separate RPG will inevitably impair the release of DH/RT supplements.

egalor said:

Probably the latter, with a few macho and cheesy one-liners tossed in between. But I hope im wrong.

Varnias Tybalt said:

It doesn't matter how big the Imperium is, or how much potential material it contains. What matters is the size of the 40k market - the number of people willing to buy the books and how many books they are willing to buy. After a few years almost everyone who is interested in 40k RPGs will have shelves of supplements. Many will be happy with the books they have, others will no longer be playing.

This was discussed at lenght over in the WFRP forum - but the gist of it is this: a company needs to release either a new game or a new edition of an existing game every few years to maintain sales. You can see the same story in GWs TT games - it's why they release a new edition every four years. The same has proven to be true in TTRPGs. It's why DnD has gone from 3ed to 3.5 to 4 since 2000 and White Wolf releases a new short term game every year (and if you've been paying attention, you'll have noticed that the number of supplements for the 'big three' has dropped off considerably over the past few years).

Well, it's all a matter of interpretation, of course.

However, he does explicitly state that Inquisitor's will be in the party in Ascension, and I never said that Temple Assassins would definately be playable, just possibly so.

MILLANDSON said:

Okay this is pretty awesome, even if they're only NPCs. And I hadn't heard about Inquisitors being in DW. That's good news.

I'm still hoping for Deathwatch though. Call me a fanboy if you want, but I know there has to be some way to make Space Marines

compelling PCs.

-

Personally I can skip DH and RT, I have been really waiting for Deathwatch, my entire group has. I wish they would do it over RT considering its been done before, lets get a new game out with a new perspective on 40K that us wargammers wanna play, Deathwatch!

flyingcircus said:

I am a wargamer, and I don't look forward to Deathwatch at all.

Tell me, what is it that you find so attractive about the idea of Deathwatch? I want to understand the mindset.