The first thing I want to say this is NOT a thread about whether or not this card should be banned.

That being said, what are your thoughts on this card? The vibe I seem to get about this card based on forum posts is that it's one of the huge reasons why people don't play lots of attacks. Obviously the card has tons of answers, as well as a favorable cost-to-payoff ratio for the player. All I want to know is how you all feel about the card. Like it? Love it? Hate it? Should there be more or less cards like it? etc.

ROTBI said:

Dude, seriously? Stop instigating arguments. Sheesh.

...anyways...this card reminds me of Conditioned Reflexes, only more flexible and with no cost.

I have no problem with the card. If someone uses on me my Vega card will stop it.

Oh yea ROTBI Sorry that i couldn't make it last week, I will be there this week.

OP got editted yo, or you're a ****** :b

Atrociously undercosted. It might be fair with a 3cc, 3 difficulty, or checking the control value of an attack instead of its difficulty. Its ability simply makes attacks into dead cards -- you leave yourself open for reversals or negative enhances (Amy's Ass tapping your Seal), you put a card in your pool, you had to put a card with a low control check in your deck, la la la la, and your payoff is maybe getting +1 momentum and depending on your board position there's a scant possibility that you could win the game.

Much of the design decisions, as I see them, were intended to push the game away from playing tons and tons of attacks -- we don't want Universal Button Mashing System, we want thought-provoking decisions, careful strategies, blah blah. Battle Prowess pushes that envelope much too far. There's a much less discussed mirror to Battle Prowess, The Kyokugen Karate Innovator -- a 3/4 +1M foundation with the same symbol spread and the effect "E Destroy this foundation: This attack gets +X damage. X equals the difficulty of an attack in your opponent's discard pile." It's virtually the same as Battle Prowess, only single-use and a damage pump.

IMO it's just badly designed.

Wafflecopter said:

My EXACT opinion

Program Malfunction and I-spin fodder =P. Gives people a reason to maybe sideboard the life gain HATE HATE HATE!

Wafflecopter said:

Wow...gives entirely new meaning to "tapping" Amy's Assistance...O_O =D

But you pretty much nailed it. When you look at the support given to us by such characters as Juli and Yun, and then look at Prowess, it just looks so unfair by comparison.

It'll be good to see you VMoney.

And no, waffle, I did not edit my original post.

Should there possibly have been some limiters on the card? Possibly.

I'm torn, because stylistically the card doesn't bother me, or the decks that I tend to play.

But I also play with a lot of commital, and I've got some serious love for revenants. So I mean, if they want to gain some life off of it once, that's fan freaking tastic. Otherwise, I just down it, and go about my business.

I have no issue with it. I would much rather prefer you gain 5 life and i still get my attack as momentum and trigger it's when this attack deals damage effects than you giving my attack -5 with amy's and me getting squat for the same **** cost.

Protoaddict said:

The man speaks the troof; Amy's Ass knows no boundaries.

People need to stop being lazy and run .:Gaira:.

You'll never fear damage redux again >:|

Amy's has better universal answers than Prowess (e.g. Torn Hero).

Being that they are both foundations I feel that the universal answers are more along the lines of ISpin, Knight breaker, so on and so forth. however Amys can stop knight breakers death enhance, battle prow cant. There are cards that stop one but not the other in both cases.

While they are not 1:1 comprable, I really think anyone who complains about Battle prow and think's amys is ok should get their head checked. for one more diff you get a card with:

A block
Extra symbol for things like manifest
Ability to commit assets
can use it even if at full life
Can use it on either players turn

...so what are you saying Proto? Are you saying we should...

...BAN AMY'S ASSISTANCE?!

=D

i played agaianst someone that had both amys and battle prowness not fun. I could throw 20+ plus dmg throws and and other attacks and he just didnt care

Battle prowess-

Hmm, My opinion....

While many answers do exist to the card, we all know that answers don't stop good card from being good :/ My only personal concern with prowess is that in essence it rewards OTK. Which is not FFG's intention.

For example, say deck A contained 4 prowess and only use 4 attacks to kill ( Tiger fury or F spike say) whereas deck B also ran 4 prowess' but used like 10+ attacks to kill.

Eventually Attacks from deck B will get cycled and player A will take damage. However with prowess he could gain majority of his life back :/ which will require even more attacks from B which will in essence mean more attacks cycled. So on.

However when B has his 4 prowess' out against that fury or Spike going for his whole life and is guaranteed a kill those 4 prowess mean squat.

They simply drag out the game and benefit OTK's too much, which again is not what FFG or UFS really want.

While i don't believe it's necessarily ban worthy it does go against aggro too well.

Amy's assistance-

THIS card as proto already explianed is better than prowess whatever the weather., yet again it does repel OTK and aggro both. but more towards Aggro really.

Both combined-

Houston we have a tank.

Just my 0.02 on this, take it for what you will.

Cheers

Hanzo

Cards like Olcadan's should never been created but it kept tank decks in check. With it's banning (along with chesters) foundations have just gotten way to strong. There are just to many cards that keep agro from being viable and they can't all be banned...just another reason i've given up on standard and been having a blast with miniblock.

Being a big Earth player now, Battle Prowess can be a bit much. Especially when combined with Criminal Past/Amy's. One or two can be easily played around, but 3-4 will cause a person needing to string attacks to think twice. I think it is too much life gain for a 1dif foundation. If it were either based off an attacks control or Unique, it would not even be an issue.

bloodocean said:

This is spot on, there are ridiculously powerful foundations in this game (block 3, block 4 is looking to be a bit of a power creep down all things considered) and some of the more accessible answers to foundations are now banned. It is a good thing in theory, and it will probably be a good thing in practice for the few major events and regionals that are out there, gives different people a taste of different things.

On topic, Battle Prowess is a really silly card. Then again, Abellia's friendship is equally silly. Amy's Assistance is also powerful... If you look at any of these in comparison to life gain in the new block, see some of Tira's stuff, you are basically comparing 'free and easy' to 'costly and difficult'.

The difference between Amy's and Prowess is the 'return to printed' cards, i.e. Amy's can sometimes be less useful than flat out gaining life, similarily Prowess can sometimes be less useful against anti life gain. Sadly one symbol can run both of these cards.

What any and all of these cards can do is 'tack on' 5-15 vitality to your character under the circumstances where a deck cannot kill with one giant attack.

Needless to say Battle Prowess was poorly thought out, but it isn't/wasn't alone by any means in the current block.

Battle Prowess is 'broken' in sealed, I recall the prerelease and all that comes to mind is it and Maternal Instincts (Life won most of the prerelease, go figure)... The sad fact is that if something is 'broken' in sealed it is probably equally efficient in standard, becuase for all of the things that stop it, there are things that stop the stopping, = still a very powerful card... Oh well.

- dut

Thanks to all who added something constructive to the discussion. I started the thread right before work, so I didn't have time to give my thoughts. While I do believe it has the potential to be quite overpowered, I see nothing banworthy about the card. As said by many of you, it is quite undercosted but also manageable. I have no issue with it.

Protoaddict said:

And with the existance of such cards, the "return to printed" cards, which generally share symbols, become horribly unbalanced, as well. When Hammer was around, Holding Ground was just fair. When you would need Hammer to break through the walls of Amy's, Prowess, etc then it's very much unfair.

A curiosity -- To anyone who is a playtester: Did you ever see the Soul Calibur foundations before they started getting released? It seems like almost all of them are greatly overpowered...

Wafflecopter said:

They got Conditioning though!

- dut

That card would've been... interesting, anyway. Your opponent gets the entire effect before you do -- for a whole turn. While it'd stagnate the meta a bit, I guess -- everyone would want to run Reppa because you could play a dozen attacks easily -- it'd be cool to see.

Maybe I'll ask my scout to do a Conditioning Night, where Li Long's is active every turn >_>

(then someone will somehow win with a control deck, I'm sure, lolz)

I honestly hate the card if only because it literally offsets the cost of Criminal Past.

Homme Chapeau said:

Does this mean criminal past bugs you more? What about throws? Enhance commit 2 foundations negate attack?

Life gain in general is really annoying... I agree.

- dut