How ridiculous. You really need to just stop. You think he needs errata, almost NOBODY else does. You think everything you have to say is fact and cannot be disagreed with or argued against, this is simply not the case.

You have constantly disregarded arguments and very valid points others have made throughout this thread while constantly repeating yourself and telling people they are wrong and tactics Aragorn or Merry must have errata. That is not a debate, that is just more or less everyone presenting different reasons and ideas of their own as to why Aragorn is not overpowered or does not need errata while you just repeat the same lame arguments every time one of them posts. You have also been trying to completely pick apart what they have said and then describe why what they have said is invalid or not even related to the argument though every single time it has been both valid and related.

You and your playgroup should be proud of the strong decks and combos you discovered but you personally should be ashamed of how far you have taken your "errata for aragorn" campaign. He doesn't need and isn't getting Errata, get over it.

The fact of the matter is the vast majority of people simply think your combo is powerful but not OP and definitely not errata worthy, if you really can't accept this so be it but please keep it to yourself.
(Around 15 forum members so far have disagreed with you and Jban including a handful of very experienced members who have first hand played the deck/decks in questions or at least very similar ones that run the same combo and as far I can tell no one else has agreed with you guys that he needs Errata so probably time to call it a day wouldn't you say?)

My opinion on this matter is yes, Tactics Aragorn is OP, but I don't think being OP qualifies a hero for errata. Look at Spirit Glorfindel and Steward of Gondor. In my opinion, both of these cards are more powerful than Tactics Aragorn, and they haven't been errata-d.

Post makes no sense. (Please add 1000 words.)

this just made my night.

instead of TL;DR maybe we need TS;DR? lol

2) This deck being OP means there are 3 options:

a) it needs errata.

b) it needs new encounter cards that will regularly appear in quests that target specifically this strategy.

c) there's going to be a powercreep so huge that this deck will not be OP anymore (since I think we can agree OP is relative to the challenges a deck is faced with). But then, 95%-99% of the other decks built with old cards will be inept at facing the new challenges - this may be partially fixed adding some very powerful cards for the stronger archetypes already existing, but it will still push aside the vast majority of the old decks.

d) You can just not play the deck if you think it breaks the game. No power creep necessary.

Nobody is making you play Outlands or Dain or Glorfindel. Nobody is making you play Aragorn and Merry.

This makes me think of Master of Lore. He was a really cool card with a lot of potential. Then someone made an infinite combo deck, they errata'd Master of Lore, and now it's pretty much unplayable. I hope they learned from the Master of Lore and don't use errata just because one combo exists.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/1/29/the-wastes-of-eriador/

Anybody notice how White Warg does bad things to you when you engage it? Maybe this next cycle makes this whole argument look silly!

Obviously, my so limited ability in handling correctly English language has prevent you Eu8L1ch to get me.

Sorry for that.

I just passed from debating to entertained with this thread.

Now, popcorn

The most powerful decks i have seen are the 'song' decks. And only the Wild-of-the-West was faqqed. However, 'song' decks continue being the most powerful decks. Look at these scores in nightmare mode (in 2 players):

Anduin: 50

Dol Guldur: 105

Carrock: 80

And nobody is claiming any errata point. Simply, there are players that no play it

Obviously, my so limited ability in handling correctly English language has prevent you Eu8L1ch to get me.

Sorry for that.

Pour info, ça me fait mal quand je te lis... je comprends que les autres n'est pas trop envie de te lire.

Et non, je ne me propose pas pour traduire tous tes arguments

I agree that designers should be using the "Limit X per round." more often on characters, but I'd issue an errata correction on a card only when it brokes the game

...

...

if you were to limit the number of times that Merry and/or Brand could trigger their ability, the whole "engage everything" aspect of the combo completely breaks. I don't know if a limit of once per round would be overkill, but it seems worth considering.

...

...

Game of Thrones recently added a blanket rule in an FAQ to limit any triggered ability to 3 times per phase. At this point I think I'd be happy for them to just do the same for LotR and be done with it - I think this would fix and prevent virtually every combo that certain players have found problematic.

This would shut down so many useful heroes, Boromir (T), Elladan and Elrohir would be next to worthless.

...

Not to mention this is directly conflicting with the new Treebeard hero who can use his ability a max of five times in one phase (turn? I forget).

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With the blanket rule of 3 per phase, those heroes would remain very useful, and make harder using them for everything (defend or attack each enemy) if a super resource generation or threat reduction engine appears. Because, they'll be able to make 4 actions.

About Treebeard, there wouldn't be a conflict with the rules. The Golden Rule (if a card text contradicts the rules, card text takes preference), so the limit would remain at 5.

This rule should affect only Actions and Responses, not Forced.

Cards prone to be abused affected by this would be:

• Heroes: Nori, Brand, Elladan, Hama, Merry (T), Pippin (L), Elrohir
• Allies : Love for Tales, Durin's Legacy
• Atachments : Horn of Gonder, Song of Eaerndil

Cards that lose significant power affected by this would be:

• Heroes: Boromir, Elladan, Elrohir
• Allies : Longbeard Mapmaker, Silvan Tracker, Warden of Healing

Previously errated card that would be "recovered": Blue Mountain Trader, Beravor, Protector of Lorien

There are a few more cards affected, but I find their effects to be too situational. This includes Tactics Aragorn, for example.

edit: clean the text

Pas de problème, alogos.

It looks like there are only few 'on topic' comments that still give new insights to the discussion. So therefor I think it has become time to just give it some rest and we will see what happens. After all, how we think about a certain card combination doesn't really matter since there is nothing we can do about it either. That's just up to Caleb, Matt and Nate.

I thought it worth it to start this threat because I thought the 'in-build' engagement combined with 'in-build' readying (and 'in-build' draw) was too strong to be true. After a week it looks like most people agree it to be powerful, overpowered or even broken.

Whether it needs an errata is unclear to determine since none of us knows the criteria of this matter, nor do we know what the developing team wants to achieve in the future cycles (eg. allowing power creep, increasing versatility in achieving a goal,...). But once again that's not our decision, that's for the developing team.

All I hoped for was this deck mechanic to get some attention so the developers could give it a thought and decide whether they are fine by it or they think it spoils the fun. For my personal experience most quests are just losing a big part of the fun factor and flavour.

To conclude, my main concern is that in the end we are only left with overpowered deck archetypes (Outlands, Songs, Dwarves, "No engagement", Spirfindel, ...) and to have a real challenge I would be forced to play second rank decks because all my top tier decks don't leave any challenge to the game. My deck-building me would be really devastated if it would get to this point.

Greetings,

Jban

I've been giving this issue a lot of thought over the last couple of days, and it is my opinion that errata of Tactics Aragorn would be a mistake. This whole situation actually reminds me of the errata of Master of Lore. "Infinite" combos are bad for the game, but there are so many ways that they could have fixed the Master of Lore, Born Aloft, Horn of Gondor and Erebor Hammersmith combo. The fact that Horn of Gondor still does not have even have a per phase limit is a sign that they gave errata to the wrong card. I was starting to make some interesting decks with Master of Lore, all of which are now impossible thanks to his change. This particular combo is not "infinite" technically, but I agree that being able to engage each enemy in play after the step for enemy attacks is incredibly strong in multiplayer. Leaving aside for the moment the question of whether this combo is just very strong or is actually "broken", the most important question to me is what to change.

Many words have been spilt over this issue, and I sadly don't have the time to outline all of my thoughts, so here is the summary. IF, and this is a big IF with an asterisk and footnotes and a bunch of qualifying language. IF this combo is deemed to be too powerful, the change that I would propose is as follows:

The Response effects of Merry and Brand Son of Bain would each gain the following text: "You cannot ready the same character with this effect more than once per phase."

This avoids the mistake that was made with Master of Lore where the wrong card was crippled. Tactics Aragorn is not the problem with this deck, and the Merry and Brand combo existed (and was arguably itself too powerful) long before The Lost Realm was ever released. Again, I am not yet prepared to make the argument that any of the cards in this deck require errata, but errata is a blunt instrument and I would hate to see such an iconic and interesting hero as Tactics Aragorn be relegated to the dustbin because of this particular combo.

I look forward to everyone else's perspective on this.

Very good idea. Yes it is. I agree with this. Maybe it is not include cause of it is a long prhase, but to me would be the most convenient, even to fix the lost Master of Lore.

Obviously, my so limited ability in handling correctly English language has prevent you Eu8L1ch to get me.

Sorry for that.

Pour info, ça me fait mal quand je te lis...

That's just hurtful.

I built this deck yesterday with some slight modifications and played it against siege of cair andros. (Normal version, not nightmare). It was a 2p game. We've struggled against this quest in the past, but this time we annihilated it so badly I don't think the aragorn deck even took damage. I've never breezed through that quest before. I honestly almost felt bad for the encounter deck after the game. This is just my first impressions of playing the quest once against one scenario, and not even the nightmare version. I'll play the nightmare tonight and see how that goes.

I have to say that regardless of whether you think the deck is overpowered, it's certainly impressive against some scenarios.

The

I've been giving this issue a lot of thought over the last couple of days, and it is my opinion that errata of Tactics Aragorn would be a mistake. This whole situation actually reminds me of the errata of Master of Lore. "Infinite" combos are bad for the game, but there are so many ways that they could have fixed the Master of Lore, Born Aloft, Horn of Gondor and Erebor Hammersmith combo. The fact that Horn of Gondor still does not have even have a per phase limit is a sign that they gave errata to the wrong card. I was starting to make some interesting decks with Master of Lore, all of which are now impossible thanks to his change. This particular combo is not "infinite" technically, but I agree that being able to engage each enemy in play after the step for enemy attacks is incredibly strong in multiplayer. Leaving aside for the moment the question of whether this combo is just very strong or is actually "broken", the most important question to me is what to change.

Many words have been spilt over this issue, and I sadly don't have the time to outline all of my thoughts, so here is the summary. IF, and this is a big IF with an asterisk and footnotes and a bunch of qualifying language. IF this combo is deemed to be too powerful, the change that I would propose is as follows: The Response effects of Merry and Brand Son of Bain would each gain the following text: "You cannot ready the same character with this effect more than once per phase."

This avoids the mistake that was made with Master of Lore where the wrong card was crippled. Tactics Aragorn is not the problem with this deck, and the Merry and Brand combo existed (and was arguably itself too powerful) long before The Lost Realm was ever released. Again, I am not yet prepared to make the argument that any of the cards in this deck require errata, but errata is a blunt instrument and I would hate to see such an iconic and interesting hero as Tactics Aragorn be relegated to the dustbin because of this particular combo.

I look forward to everyone else's perspective on this.

Very good idea. Yes it is. I agree with this. Maybe it is not include cause of it is a long prhase, but to me would be the most convenient, even to fix the lost Master of Lore.

I would love to see Master of Lore fixed!

Obviously, my so limited ability in handling correctly English language has prevent you Eu8L1ch to get me.

Sorry for that.

Pour info, ça me fait mal quand je te lis...

That's just hurtful.

I've been giving this issue a lot of thought over the last couple of days, and it is my opinion that errata of Tactics Aragorn would be a mistake. This whole situation actually reminds me of the errata of Master of Lore. "Infinite" combos are bad for the game, but there are so many ways that they could have fixed the Master of Lore, Born Aloft, Horn of Gondor and Erebor Hammersmith combo. The fact that Horn of Gondor still does not have even have a per phase limit is a sign that they gave errata to the wrong card. I was starting to make some interesting decks with Master of Lore, all of which are now impossible thanks to his change. This particular combo is not "infinite" technically, but I agree that being able to engage each enemy in play after the step for enemy attacks is incredibly strong in multiplayer. Leaving aside for the moment the question of whether this combo is just very strong or is actually "broken", the most important question to me is what to change.

Many words have been spilt over this issue, and I sadly don't have the time to outline all of my thoughts, so here is the summary. IF, and this is a big IF with an asterisk and footnotes and a bunch of qualifying language. IF this combo is deemed to be too powerful, the change that I would propose is as follows:

The Response effects of Merry and Brand Son of Bain would each gain the following text: "You cannot ready the same character with this effect more than once per phase."

This avoids the mistake that was made with Master of Lore where the wrong card was crippled. Tactics Aragorn is not the problem with this deck, and the Merry and Brand combo existed (and was arguably itself too powerful) long before The Lost Realm was ever released. Again, I am not yet prepared to make the argument that any of the cards in this deck require errata, but errata is a blunt instrument and I would hate to see such an iconic and interesting hero as Tactics Aragorn be relegated to the dustbin because of this particular combo.

I look forward to everyone else's perspective on this.

I don't think that there should be errata but if there is I agree it should be on Merry and Brand and not Tactics Aragorn and most certainly not a blanket ruling that makes Elronds Son's and Tactics Boromir a million times less useful.

I also think that your idea is far better than simply limiting Merry or Brand's ability to one use a turn as this way you can still use it multiple times but will need to do so with a different hero each time.

Maybe they should start making a bunch of quest cards that say you can't use card effects to ready heroes.

probably one of my most dreaded encounter effects is when an encounter card makes you treat the text box of a hero/all heroes as blank..... Elrohir and Elladan lose their responses and your uber defender dissapears and can only block the one attack. Elrond cannot pay for any allies and does not improve healing and Haldir's sniping ability dissapears.
Nasty nasty effect. The only good thing is when I get to choose who to attach this effect to and Glorfindel is a valid target cause all that does is remove his +1 threat gain when he exhausts to quest!!!!

Can Beorn's player card immunity be blanked? I don't recall.

Trololo my neighbor, I do not see why his immunity would not be blanked as it is in the text box, and Beorn is not immune to encounter card effect.

And then you attach to him a self preservation when his text his blank ...

That makes my day ... Thanks

If is text is unblanked, though, he will lost his attachment.

If is text is unblanked, though, he will lost his attachment.

The effect won't work but he will keep it, right?

It's the same as with Gandalf. You can play Burning Brand on him while you play it from your hand, because he temporaraly gains the Lore icon, but when the icon disappears, he still keeps the Burning Brand and since he ain't immume, the effect will stay too.

No, Alogos is right, the attachment would be discarded.

But just a couple of rounds where you can heal allmighty Beorn is not to be denied !

And why would that be? Just curious.