@mazz0, Nobody knows whether or not the game could support it because nobody has tested it that way. Since the game is arguably balanced as it is right now, I would say the burden of proof for showing that the game needs a huge change like this is on the person who wants to make the change, not the rest of us. FFG didn't change the Phantom on a whim and expect all of us to figure out whether or not it was a good decision, they playtested the new FAQ extensively before making such a drastic change to the game.

Why not make it just for the generics?

We're kind of already halfway there. Imperials get generic Firesprays and rebels get generic Zs, Ys and HWKs. I think if you started allowing the original factions to take generic M3-As, you'd really be hurting Scum as a stand alone faction, it's already struggling to find its place in the competitive metagame other than the IG-2000, it probably doesn't need the legs knocked out from under it in that way.

There's a reason FFG gave scum Y-Wings salvaged mechs instead of just new astromechs...

I think the reason they had to invent the salvaged astromech was because they'd neglected to make unique ones like R2-D2 Rebel only, so they had no choice.

How is that different from what I was saying? FFG could've easily errata'd R2-D2 to say rebel only (it effectively was until Scum came out) and not had to design a bunch of new astromechs just to prevent Scum from taking 1 droid for flavor reasons.

Why not make it just for the generics?

I see no reason why balance and faction identity should be put on the line so scum can have even more toys to play with...I also don't want to see the imperial forms of the firespray become completely irrelevant. I don't think anyone but scum should have access to illicits.

There is no need for it now and there was no need for it when this was first suggested months ago. As for IA doing it? Wonderful...we aren't playing IA, this is xwing...and this could hurt the game more than help it.

EDIT: stupid autocorrect

There's a reason FFG gave scum Y-Wings salvaged mechs instead of just new astromechs...

I think the reason they had to invent the salvaged astromech was because they'd neglected to make unique ones like R2-D2 Rebel only, so they had no choice.

I doubt the anticipated needing a third faction when they were creating wave 1. Scum wasn't even a thought yet...

Why not make it just for the generics?

Because no faction should have access to literally every ship in the game. Especially if the justification is "they steal stuff" or "they have the money." It would hurt faction identity and could (I lean more toward would) lead to balancing issues in the future. Scum would theoretically have access to upgrades that aren't available to them and shouldn't be (standard Astromechs, royal guard tie, the dreaded ACD, the millennium falcon!, ACT when it hits)

I see no reason why balance and faction identity should be put on the line so scum can have even more toys to play with...I also don't want to see the imperial forms of the firespray become completely irrelevant. I don't think anyone but scum should have access to illicits.

There is no need for it now and there was no need for it when this was first suggested months ago. As for IA doing it? Wonderful...we aren't playing IA, this is xwing...and this could hurt the game more than help it.

EDIT: stupid autocorrect

Do keep in mind that moving ships across faction wouldn't allow you to mix and match upgrades other than Crew. Only Interceptors can have RGT, only TIE Adv can have ATC, only YT-1300 can take the MF title, etc.

That being said, making a huge change to the game like this is something that you have to prove is worth the risk before you do it. The playtesting that would have to be done before implementing something like this to make sure this didn't break the game would be a huge undertaking for FFG to undergo, all for likely minimal benefit. It's what's called a solution in search of a problem. Something that often happens to people that are bored and have too much free time on their hands and nothing to do with it.

Mazz0, you kind of just threw the question out into the community to see what people thought of it. You've criticized everyone that's told you it's a bad idea, so why don't you tell us what you think? Now that you know how much work this would take to officially implement into the game without wrecking what competitive balance FFG has managed to restore to the game, why do you think this change is needed or merits all that extra work? What upsides does it bring to the game that X-Wing is so desperately in need of that is worth the huge risk of such a fundmental change?

Tvboy,

Can't properly quote you cause I am on a phone but I wanted to point out something regarding the title access.

I am aware that those titles couldn't be mixed and matched...but if they take that ship they can take the upgrade on that ship is all I was getting at...they therefore have access to it...

Carry on...

Hasn't stopped them in IA.

Because IA was designed with it in mind.

Irellevent. If the state now is such that it would work now then it doesn't matter whether that state has come into being by chance or design, it is or is not, either way. That's why I was asking whether the state exists, not why it might or might not.

Nay sir...it is relevant...

That being said I don't feel that state exists in this game. It takes us down a dangerous path for little benefit to anyone other than scum...

@mazz0, Nobody knows whether or not the game could support it because nobody has tested it that way. Since the game is arguably balanced as it is right now, I would say the burden of proof for showing that the game needs a huge change like this is on the person who wants to make the change, not the rest of us. FFG didn't change the Phantom on a whim and expect all of us to figure out whether or not it was a good decision, they playtested the new FAQ extensively before making such a drastic change to the game.

How is that different from what I was saying? FFG could've easily errata'd R2-D2 to say rebel only (it effectively was until Scum came out) and not had to design a bunch of new astromechs just to prevent Scum from taking 1 droid for flavor reasons.

Mazz0, you kind of just threw the question out into the community to see what people thought of it. You've criticized everyone that's told you it's a bad idea, so why don't you tell us what you think? Now that you know how much work this would take to officially implement into the game without wrecking what competitive balance FFG has managed to restore to the game, why do you think this change is needed or merits all that extra work? What upsides does it bring to the game that X-Wing is so desperately in need of that is worth the huge risk of such a fundmental change?

It's what's called a solution in search of a problem. Something that often happens to people that are bored and have too much free time on their hands and nothing to do with it.

@Mazz0, You kind of dodged my main question, what is your opinion on how this would affect the game? It's your thread, maybe tell us what you think?

@Mazz0, You kind of dodged my main question, what is your opinion on how this would affect the game? It's your thread, maybe tell us what you think?

And to add: Why is this proposed benefit significant enough to warrant an actual rules change rather than just house ruling fun combos with your mates?

I dislike that Emon can't fly Rebel colors.

So I'm all for this.

Hasn't stopped them in IA.

Because IA was designed with it in mind.

Irellevent. If the state now is such that it would work now then it doesn't matter whether that state has come into being by chance or design, it is or is not, either way. That's why I was asking whether the state exists, not why it might or might not.

If my point is irrelevant then so is yours. IA decided to enable this in development and made it work while keeping each faction as each faction. If IA isn't relevant, then IA isn't relevant.

Bear in mind the entire reason Scum exists as a faction (according to designer interviews, the S&V Podcast one I believe) is to avoid putting the Scum ships in Rebel and Empire. After going to all that effort to not "contaminate" Rebel Alliance and Galactic Empire, I don't see why they'd suddenly do it now.

Houserule it if you want, but I can't see it ever getting into the official rules unless the designers change again.

Hasn't stopped them in IA.

Because IA was designed with it in mind.

Irellevent. If the state now is such that it would work now then it doesn't matter whether that state has come into being by chance or design, it is or is not, either way. That's why I was asking whether the state exists, not why it might or might not.

If my point is irrelevant then so is yours. IA decided to enable this in development and made it work while keeping each faction as each faction. If IA isn't relevant, then IA isn't relevant.

Bear in mind the entire reason Scum exists as a faction (according to designer interviews, the S&V Podcast one I believe) is to avoid putting the Scum ships in Rebel and Empire. After going to all that effort to not "contaminate" Rebel Alliance and Galactic Empire, I don't see why they'd suddenly do it now.

Houserule it if you want, but I can't see it ever getting into the official rules unless the designers change again.

I dislike that Emon can't fly Rebel colors.

So I'm all for this.

Because he didn't join the RA in the same way Ace did.

Let's put it this way, this would also allow him to fly Imperial colours, would let Dash team up with Xizor or Fett with Han. Do you want to see that?

Alright alright fair point... He should have just been a Rebel Firespray pilot then. Even though that'd never fly.

I just.

Argh.

The idea that Emon can shoot Rebel ships just... MAN that doesn't sit well with me.

Not too difficult to rationalise though.

Not too difficult to rationalise though.

Considering what I know of the character it kinda' is. I can't see him ever firing on a Rebel with the intent to kill, hell even just firing to disable seems out of his consideration.

Not too difficult to rationalise though.

Considering what I know of the character it kinda' is. I can't see him ever firing on a Rebel with the intent to kill, hell even just firing to disable seems out of his consideration.

Firing on a known member of the main Rebel Alliance with intent to kill unprovoked.

When you're flying Emon and a few shady allies and you see a bunch of X-wings across the table, it's a bunch of X-wings. The Rebel Alliance is a big organisation, and it's bound to have splinter groups, possibly far less "principled" splinter groups. And if a bunch of X-wings come at you not transmitting friendly transponder codes with weapons powered and firing you're not going to not fight back.

@Mazz0, You kind of dodged my main question, what is your opinion on how this would affect the game? It's your thread, maybe tell us what you think?

Oh, sorry, I didn't realise I hadn't made that clear - I think it would be cool! I just like the idea, flavourwise, and I think new options is always fun (although there are so many intra-squad combos I haven't tried yet anyway).

I have no idea about the balance - I can't think of anything broken that would come about, but I haven't spent much time thinking about it, but the two examples people have so far put accross so far in this thread don't seem like significant issues to me.

@Mazz0, You kind of dodged my main question, what is your opinion on how this would affect the game? It's your thread, maybe tell us what you think?

And to add: Why is this proposed benefit significant enough to warrant an actual rules change rather than just house ruling fun combos with your mates?

"Proposed benefit", "significant enough"? Why are you acting like it's such a big deal - I'm just asking a) whether it would be cool and why (ie examples of fun stuff to try), b) whether there would be balance issues (eg this combo would be broken), and c) would doing it IA style be a fun way - where you're only allowed a set number of points.

If my point is irrelevant then so is yours. IA decided to enable this in development and made it work while keeping each faction as each faction. If IA isn't relevant, then IA isn't relevant.

Bear in mind the entire reason Scum exists as a faction (according to designer interviews, the S&V Podcast one I believe) is to avoid putting the Scum ships in Rebel and Empire. After going to all that effort to not "contaminate" Rebel Alliance and Galactic Empire, I don't see why they'd suddenly do it now.

Houserule it if you want, but I can't see it ever getting into the official rules unless the designers change again.

I think my point didn't come accross - my point was that you can't just dismiss it in principle because "The game kind of breaks down if you can mix the factions.". My point was you need to give a specific explanation of in what way it would be broken, otherwise your'e basically saying "it just would, ok!".

Houserule it if you want, but I can't see it ever getting into the official rules unless the designers change again.

Discuss it as a house rule if you like, or as a potential new proper rule, what difference does it make? It's the issues involved in it as a rule I'm interested it, not the behind the scenes work involved in making it official.

I think my point didn't come accross - my point was that you can't just dismiss it in principle because "The game kind of breaks down if you can mix the factions.". My point was you need to give a specific explanation of in what way it would be broken, otherwise your'e basically saying "it just would, ok!".

And my point was that saying "IA did it" doesn't make it somehow valid here. The designers have stated (S&V Podcast designer interview) they specifically created the S&V faction to avoid putting the ships in Rebel and Empire.

Take a look at Star Trek Attack wing and see how mixing factions *#&@ #&%@ up!

As the tourney rules state:

All pilot cards and ship tokens in a player’s squad must belong to the same faction. If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction, he or she may use any version of that ship’s model and dial in his or her squad.

I think you'll just see re-prints in other factions rather than "pay X points to borrow from faction". They will have expansions that can use other faction models to the very least but not crossover usage. Like Imp and Scum have firespray as well as Boba Fett.

Personally, I hate "salvaged" astromechs. Thy should have just said scum only.

Personally, I hate "salvaged" astromechs. Thy should have just said scum only.

or "Jawa Pre-Owned" HAHA

Personally, I hate "salvaged" astromechs. Thy should have just said scum only.

That doesn't solve the r2d2 issue though.

I was interested in this thread from a game design perspective, but so far the only thing I've seen in favor of breaking a key aspect of the game is "why not?" and "more choices must be better right?".

It's been proven that there is such a thing as too many choices, and the "why not" is because you'd lose a key piece of what makes X-Wing such a great game, which is that you have to pick a faction and the factions each have a unique feel to them, which makes choosing your faction an important, meaningful decision. The fact that some Scum squads feel like a repainted Rebel squad isn't a good argument in favor of more "faction bleeding". One bad decision should not justify more. Starbucks is a super successful company that at one point encouraged their employees to engage customers on race issues in America, that must be a good business decision right?

I think I stepped into this thread expecting a meaningful discussion about game design principles, but found someone who wants a conversation about the implication of the government creating flying purple rhinos that rain skittles and cheeseburgers down on Manhattan, and dislikes it when people tell him there's no point in talking about something that's a lot worse than it sounds and is never gonna happen anyway. OP, I'm gonna bow out and let your durdle to your heart's content, sorry to rain on your parade.