I'd like some clarification both of what the rules and the fluff says about detecting the presence of Psykers.

Can a person skilled in Psyniscience detect the presence of a Psyker who is currently not manifesting any powers? Asked another way: Can a Psyker conceal his nature by choosing to not use his powers?

Or will he instantly and constantly be broadcasting his nature to all those able to detect Warp phenomena?

The rules are a little unclear, methinks:
Core Rulebook, p 105:
"the most common application of this skill is to detect presence or absence of Demons or other psykers."
But then:
"On success you extend your senses....." and the results specifying "immaterium being disrupted", "location from where the phenomena" or "person channeling or blocking the immaterium".

The example in Inquisitors Handbook p 235 would seem to suggest that you can read quite a lot by a successful use of the skill, and does not specify that the psyker must be "active", but the chart again specifies "phenomena", etc.

So which is it?

I run it that you can use psyniscience to detect psykers (whether using powers or not, though using gives a bonus) as well as general psychic/supernatural gubbins.

As an aside, I also have a rule that anyone with psyniscience automatically detects psykers in line of sight provided they are reasonably close (have never defined an actual range for this). I've never used it, but I have an unstated rule in my head that you further automatically detect if making eye contact, regardless of range.

Whereas I handle it such that a psyker that's been using their abilities is fairly easy to notice, but one that's been "running quiet" for a few hours requires a much more difficult (-10 to -30, depending on the situation) check. Detecting latent Psykers are always a -30 Psyn. check in my game. On the other hand, major phenomena, and active Daemonhosts, frequently don't even require a check.

I have some problems with this approach though, primarily from a gameplay perspective: It becomes impossible to go "undercover" for a psyker if they can be detected willy-nilly by any other psyker either in the service of authorities, cults or other organisations.

But there are also many examples of "hidden psychers" in the various books, and also i believe in fluff novels. For example on p. 318 Lord Inquisitor Anthon Zerbe is described as ".. a powerful psyker, allthough this fact is not generally known within the cabal. Zerbe keeps his psychic talents in reserve..."

The Inquisition is practically flowing over with Psychers, any Inquisitor worth his salt (unless he be violently puritan) keeps one at hand if for nothing else to protect himself against other psykers. So how could Zerbes powers be unknown if any psyker within 10m * WP Bonus + Overbleed multipliers could detect his powers? The text would imply that by keeping his talents in reserve he is also keeping their existance a secret.

I work on a similar premise to using Magical Sense/Witchsight in WFRP - the ability detects psychic disturbances. Psykers produce those disturbances when they use powers, and to a vastly lesser degree just by existing (it's not so much above baseline human as to be easy to pick up most of the time, though more powerful psykers are easier to detect than weaker ones), and areas of strong psychic 'noise' can impede or stop Psyniscience altogether, and similarly distance can make it difficult to get a proper sense of things, particularly in a crowded place with lots of other souls about. DIfferent creatures show up differently: for example Eldar are much easier to observe psychically under normal circumstances - their souls are so bright as to be almost uncomfortable to look at - but being a sophisticated psychic species have plenty of methods of concealing that aspect of themselves if needed. Daemons are really easy to spot, but this can be a liability as direct, clear observation is all I personally require for a Fear test, and psyniscience can pick up a Daemon sooner and through conditions that would obscure sight.

I have some problems with this approach though, primarily from a gameplay perspective: It becomes impossible to go "undercover" for a psyker if they can be detected willy-nilly by any other psyker either in the service of authorities, cults or other organisations.

Unless, of course, he goes undercover as a psyker . Most cults have no problem with obtaining a little empyrean power and psykers in the service of the authorities are at least rare - you'll likely find some in the headquarters of major organizations and perhaps attending the heads of noble houses.

For more details on how going undercover as a psyker works, pick up Scourge The Heretic.

But there are also many examples of "hidden psychers" in the various books, and also i believe in fluff novels. For example on p. 318 Lord Inquisitor Anthon Zerbe is described as ".. a powerful psyker, allthough this fact is not generally known within the cabal. Zerbe keeps his psychic talents in reserve..."

The Inquisition is practically flowing over with Psychers, any Inquisitor worth his salt (unless he be violently puritan) keeps one at hand if for nothing else to protect himself against other psykers. So how could Zerbes powers be unknown if any psyker within 10m * WP Bonus + Overbleed multipliers could detect his powers? The text would imply that by keeping his talents in reserve he is also keeping their existance a secret.

Perhaps he is using a talent reserved for characters beyond those played in DH? "An inquisitor can do it" is not exactly the best justification in DH.

As for the rest of fluff, it's also made clear that pretty much all space ports are constantly monitored by sanctioned psykers, precisely because the Imperium doesn't want the unsanctioned to move around freely. If all they had to do was refraining from manifesting powers while at the port, that would be a little pointless, wouldn't it?

In many of the books there are often various mechanical, and drug means to dampen or suppress psykers. These not only suppress powers, but also their detection. Ravenor for example makes use of a null (untouchable) in several books to hide from more powerful/numerous foes. My inquisitor carries a null's head in a box for defense.

Good answers, friends!

I guess that settles things, and now all I have to figure out is how to ret-con this in my current campaign. Hmm, I suppose the sorceror aboard the Cygnan Martyr could have some sort of dampening tool or summat?

If the party's psyker could detect that the man was a psyker (well, sorceror) the minute they set foot on the ship, things would have played out very differently. And while the fluff certainly states that psykers are rare, they are literally all over the place in the novels and scenarioes. Seems everybody has their pet psyker... Grumble...

A followup question:

Cifer said:

"As for the rest of fluff, it's also made clear that pretty much all space ports are constantly monitored by sanctioned psykers, precisely because the Imperium doesn't want the unsanctioned to move around freely."

Just how would this play out?

Say a Psyker arrived at a space port, steps of the bus and is detected by the local spook. Which organization does the spook belong to? How would the arriving Psyker be approached?

What if his sanctioning brand is concealed?

I guess that settles things, and now all I have to figure out is how to ret-con this in my current campaign. Hmm, I suppose the sorceror aboard the Cygnan Martyr could have some sort of dampening tool or summat?

If the party's psyker could detect that the man was a psyker (well, sorceror) the minute they set foot on the ship, things would have played out very differently. And while the fluff certainly states that psykers are rare, they are literally all over the place in the novels and scenarioes. Seems everybody has their pet psyker... Grumble...

A sorceror is a wholly different thing - I don't think they'd show up on the psy-dar as their entire power comes not from themselves, but from their rituals. As long as they're not manifesting powers, they have no stronger connection to the warp than your average citizen (assuming they don't also have a pact or other link to the place).

Just how would this play out?

Say a Psyker arrived at a space port, steps of the bus and is detected by the local spook. Which organization does the spook belong to? How would the arriving Psyker be approached?

What if his sanctioning brand is concealed?

The first thing a travelling sanctioned psyker should do when entering a space port would be to announce himself to the authorities - if he doesn't do so, that already makes him look like he's got something to hide. He'd simply be led to a specific office where his occupation, destination and permits are reviewed and is then released back to the port to go on with his travels.

If he is found out by the local spook (who would probably be loaned to the local port authorities by the Imperium if he's not a freelancer - but at that point we're back to discussing how exactly psykers are discharged after their sanctioning), he'd be watched - through the scope of a rifle, generally. If he goes on and tries to board a shuttle, he'll be detained for questioning. Essentially the same as above, but a lot less friendly.

If he's in the retinue of a noble, his master would likely have to explain his presence, although he could greatly expedite the process by calling ahead and announcing he'll travel with a psyker wherupon the whole process would be handled more discreetly. As nobles often employ non-ostensibly branded psykers as covert bodyguards, this would benefit them.

Cifer said:

His profile is given with a Psy rating and several powers listed under "Sorcery" (Fearful Aura, etc). I gather that mechanically this plays like any ol' Psyker, but fluffwise they are very different? I don't think he needs to perform a ritual to manifest his powers, but I could be wrong...

The rest of your answer was very helpful, thank you.

His profile is given with a Psy rating and several powers listed under "Sorcery" (Fearful Aura, etc). I gather that mechanically this plays like any ol' Psyker, but fluffwise they are very different? I don't think he needs to perform a ritual to manifest his powers, but I could be wrong...

For info on sorcery, read the box on DH page 337 and the advanced rules in DotDG 116 ff. Sorcerors usually aren't true psykers - they gain their powers not from funny genetics, but from studying heretical tomes containing mystic lore on how to call down the powers of the warp. Cults will most often have a sorceror rather than a psyker because the latter are so **** rare.

Darth Smeg said:

That's why you don't send Psykers "undercover" if they are expected to encounter other psykers that might reveal them for what they are.

Darth Smeg said:

The keyword here is "generally". The other Psykers within the cabal (Like Vownus Kaede for example) is bound to know the truth about Anthon Zerbe, but neither of them have anything to gain in revealing the fact that they both are psykers. And the rest of the cabal's members aren't really in a position to question Zerbe due to the fact that he's an Inquisitor Lord. At most they might have heard rumours about Zerbe being a psyker but im sure he'd take great measures in making sure that his real powers aren't revealed that easily.

Then again, he's an Inquisitor Lord, which means he can take greater steps in obfuscating his "taint". A Player Character don't have the same kind of resources, which clearly makes them unfit for "undercover" work if there's a risk that other psykers might be involved. However, keeping an untouchable close by would certainly mask a psykers prescence (given the fact that they blank out any psychic powers in the vicinity, two psykers nearby an untouchable wouldn't even be able to register eachother for what they really are).

So if you need to keep a psyker undercover from other psykers, stick an untouchable in with the group.

Then of course, there's not that many rogue psykers that would find it strange if another psyker shows up (perhaps due to acolytes being undercover, investigating criminals etc.). Just because you're a psyker it doesn't necessarily mean that you can be read by other psykers like you were an open book. So if an NPC rogue psyker were to say: "I know what you are!", the PC psyker could just reply: "Yeah? so?"

It's not like an NPC psyker must have a "magical ability" to tell that the PC psyker is an Inquisitorial agent...

Hmm. Given that

a) Pskers regularily pass unsanctioned

and

b) there are rules for determining whether a person is a psyker in the Divination power Soul Sight,

I'm guessing that psychic power (that isn't being actively used, that is) can only be detected by a skilled Diviner or another being with equivalent abilities.

I'd imagine that Labyrinthine Conditioning, or at least a similar skill, is part of how Zerbe conceals his powers.

Hmm. Given that

a) Pskers regularily pass unsanctioned

and

b) there are rules for determining whether a person is a psyker in the Divination power Soul Sight,

I'm guessing that psychic power (that isn't being actively used, that is) can only be detected by a skilled Diviner or another being with equivalent abilities.

a) Unsanctioned pass regularly unnoticed because psykers are rare and they know to keep away from the places where they're most likely to encounter one.

b) Er, no. There are rules for determining what powers a psyker has - which can't be accomplished by Psyniscience. And even if it was only "Psyker - yes/no", of course it would be included in an encompassing power like Soul Sight, but that doesn't have any say about it not being visible with Psyniscience. It would be rather embarrassing if it was included in Psyniscience but not in Soul Sight, wouldn't it? "Well, he's got 25 corruption points, 14 insanity points and his last breakfast consisted of corpse starch."-"Oh, and he's a psyker, but how should a mighty diviner like you find that out?"

Strictly as written, Psynisciene only allows you to detect the presence of absence of Psykers in general. It also and allows you to pinpoint their precise location on two degrees of success if and only if they are "channelling or blocking the immaterium."

The actual intention of the designers is, I agree, a little more hazy. I'm just trying to clarify the rules as scrictly written, which if nothing else expediates the process of writing erratta.

However, Soul Sight (which uses a Psyniscience test) explicitly allows you to look at a specific individual and see, on any degree of success, if they have any Discipline Powers . It actually takes 2 degress of success to infer a psi rating and 3 degrees of success to tell if they have Minor Powers, which implies that even a very powerful Diviner employing a sophisticated version of Psyncience can directly read the aura of a minor psyker and yet not know how powerful they are or if they have any actual powers. Since nothing in the description of a Soul Sight test says "you detect whether or not they are a psyker," this means that on less than 2 degrees of the success, the Diviner knows neither if they have a Psy Rating or if they have Powers, which means that he has no reason to believe that they are a Psyker at all.

That said, it's not all that hard to detect most Unsanctioned Psykers because most have little or not control over their powers, may not even be aware that some of their powers are actually powers at all, and frequently may be forced to use their powers to survive. So, say the Sundance Kid is an unsanctioned Psyker. He can use one Minor Power, Unnatural Aim, without even creating Psycic Phenomena. Since the Sundance Kid is a skilled gunslinger, he never realizes that part of his skill came from the Warp until the Inquisition comes for him.

However, say that before this happens, he developes the power Divine Shot. He still may not realize that he's channeling the Warp, but every time he uses it, strange things happen around him. Now even his closest friends begin to whisper that his skill is the result of a bargain with a daemon. Soon, he flees to the deep Underhive, knowing that it's now only a matter of whether the Red Redemption or the Black Ships, or the Daemons summoned by his own powers come for him first.

Honestly, I can't see the Unsactioned Psyker elite advance being much fun to play if every competent Psyker just needs to stand within a mile of you to find out you're a Psyker. However, even a bright but unskilled Psyker could easily notice that he detects the general presence of another psyker whenever the acolytes enter the room. That's all it takes to attract the wrong type of attention...

Oh, and you can only determine their Psy Rating if they have any Psychic Disciplines . So it actually takes a full three degrees of success for a Diviner using Soul Sight to uncover any evidence that a Psyker with only Minor Powers is a Psyker at all.