Obscure question on knockback

By TheFlatline, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

Posted at

Corbon said:

Harg's attack on level 16 apparently does have a specific timing (before armour is applied).
Indeed, ironically, the combination of Harg's and Lodall's specials strongly supports that the opposite position being true, if Badend's quote is accurate (I haven't checked the card, though I did check Level 19). Harg's ability uses the same phrase as Knockback etc and clearly uses it for timing as there is no requirement for damage/wounds, just a hit. If the phrase is clearly used for timing here, it is more likely that it is 'clearly' used for timing elsewhere as well, though I don't quite understand Antistone's insistence that it can only have one purpose.

Still, frankly that is probably all coincidental as they are probably written by different people with different ideas anyway.

Just the level 16 out there:

Leader: Harg the Greedy is a Master Manticore with 8 extra wounds and 1 extra armor. If Harg's attack hits a hero (before armor is applied), the party loses 50 gold.

I actually find it very interesting as well that this has the same wording for Knockback, but doesn't even require damage to happen.

Posted at

Big Remy said:

Corbon said:

Harg's attack on level 16 apparently does have a specific timing (before armour is applied).
Indeed, ironically, the combination of Harg's and Lodall's specials strongly supports that the opposite position being true, if Badend's quote is accurate (I haven't checked the card, though I did check Level 19). Harg's ability uses the same phrase as Knockback etc and clearly uses it for timing as there is no requirement for damage/wounds, just a hit. If the phrase is clearly used for timing here, it is more likely that it is 'clearly' used for timing elsewhere as well, though I don't quite understand Antistone's insistence that it can only have one purpose.

Still, frankly that is probably all coincidental as they are probably written by different people with different ideas anyway.

Just the level 16 out there:

Leader: Harg the Greedy is a Master Manticore with 8 extra wounds and 1 extra armor. If Harg's attack hits a hero (before armor is applied), the party loses 50 gold.

I actually find it very interesting as well that this has the same wording for Knockback, but doesn't even require damage to happen.

Nor does knockback. Knockback applies if you're hit, not if you're wounded.

Posted at

Parathion said:

Badend said:

So is a hit sometimes before armor, and sometimes after? I'd rule that the first part of Lodall's description makes his sleep token be applied. If his damage removed the sleep token, he could never cause heroes to fall asleep. Therefor his sleep tokens must not be removed by the damage from his club. Specific trumping general and all.

See, if you always apply effect tokens after wounds as I suggested above, RAW in this case is perfectly clear and straightforward - no trumping necessary. Since nothing is mentioned that this is a special case trumping the general rule, this strongly supports my position.

Too bad knockback, which is the original issue, doesn't inflict counters.

Posted at

TheFlatline said:

Knockback applies if you're hit, not if you're wounded.

Neither, actually. It applies if you're hit by an attack that does damage (but not necessarily wounds). Attacks using only blue/yellow/power dice can "hit" without causing damage.

It probably should apply if you're hit (or stuff that applies if you're hit should require damage), because they're multiplying distinctions to no real benefit, but that's beside the point.

Big Remy said:


Leader: Harg the Greedy is a Master Manticore with 8 extra wounds and 1 extra armor. If Harg's attack hits a hero (before armor is applied), the party loses 50 gold.

I actually find it very interesting as well that this has the same wording for Knockback, but doesn't even require damage to happen.

Yeah, that's clearly terrible writing no matter what it means. If it's supposed to indicate timing, there are clearer ways to describe that point in the resolution sequence, and it should be written after the effect, rather than after the trigger (e.g. "If Harg's attack hits a hero, the party loses 50 gold before wounds are applied"). If it's supposed to modify or clarify the triggering condition, it doesn't make any sense. My money's on it being a copy/paste error.

Posted at

Antistone said:

Big Remy said:


Leader: Harg the Greedy is a Master Manticore with 8 extra wounds and 1 extra armor. If Harg's attack hits a hero (before armor is applied), the party loses 50 gold.

I actually find it very interesting as well that this has the same wording for Knockback, but doesn't even require damage to happen.

Yeah, that's clearly terrible writing no matter what it means. If it's supposed to indicate timing, there are clearer ways to describe that point in the resolution sequence, and it should be written after the effect, rather than after the trigger (e.g. "If Harg's attack hits a hero, the party loses 50 gold before wounds are applied"). If it's supposed to modify or clarify the triggering condition, it doesn't make any sense. My money's on it being a copy/paste error.

I'll completely fail to take that money. gui%C3%B1o.gif