Question about Pyromancer’s Cache

By player583503, in 1. AGoT General Discussion

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I don't know - but can we just make this card legal again across the board? Please. We have location control back - lets open up the Cache again for everyone.

Please unban it, FFG.

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Huh... I didn't notice that.

~ And no there is already too much draw in the LCG environment.

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I'm not for unbanning too.

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As the TO for the events, I will tell you how I will rule at Gencon - unless a different word comes down from FFG.

> We know that the announcement/article had typos in it (e.g., it did not include Kings of the Sea as legal when it was first posted). So I am comfortable saying the information in the article is an oversight, attribute the banning of Pyromancer's Cache to an oversight and follow the official banned lists in the AGoT LCG Tournament Rules available on the Support section of the mini-site.

So Pyromancer's Cache is legal in the Legacy event, but still banned for the LCG Joust and Melee events.

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I think that now that eac house has at least one king or queen (plus Mance) and we are seeing more location control in the game, it is time to make PC legal in LCG.

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JerusalemJones said:

I think that now that eac house has at least one king or queen (plus Mance) and we are seeing more location control in the game, it is time to make PC legal in LCG.

Doubt it'll happen.

I personally think the banning of the Cache had nothing to do with "uncontrolled" draw or the considerable imbalances it could create in availability of draw (after all, even without the Cache, LCG draw has been pretty squarely in Lannister's favor).

Rather, I think FFG wanted to raise the difficulty threshold on drawing cards. Every other draw card in LCG requires you do win a challenge, lose a character, play a particular card type, or share the draw with another player. In short, PC would be the only LCG card where you simply pay a cost and take the cards without having to either accomplish something else first or risk your opponent drawing, too. So I don't think the increased availability of Kings or location control would have much to do with it; I think the PC banning has more to do with the way design wants draw mechanics to work than because of the "environmental balance" for the card itself.

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A pretty fair argument. Good, solid points, and I can't argue against them. You're probably right, too. There was alot of card draw available just prior to the LCG switch, and I think we got used to that. Cache can be argued that it is the last holdover from ccg days, and it really is open-ended draw. Even cards like Xaro's Home -- perhaps the best card draw Targ has even had -- require influence on the table to use.

I don't want to argue about possible fixes to the card. Sure, there are several I can come up with, and easily. But I would rather see a card banned than errata'd. Errata can be forgotten, especially in the heat of the game. And we've got enough of them already in LCG. We're starting to see more draw creep into the game -- and not all of it is Lannister. A quick look on Tzu's site gives 32 cards (some very situational, of course) that provide draw (not counting the Cache). And they are spread among all the house. And the upcoming Kings Landing also will provide more draw. Martell seems to be getting more draw as well, so I look forward to seeing what their expansion brings to the game.

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ktom said:

Every other draw card in LCG requires you do win a challenge, lose a character, play a particular card type, or share the draw with another player.

Not sure, at least Golden tooth mine and Tommen are realtive easy draw mechanics, which shouldn´t be more complicated to pull off than draw from a pyromancer´s cache.

In general i think it´s FFG´s decision how they want to arrange card draw in their game. ~Who´s else between?! ;-) It´s also much more interesting and fun if you get an additional reward when you win a challenge/dominance/ fulfill special condition. The only thing i dislike about the decision is that card draw as a reward will always benefit the leading player and thus make the card advantage distance in a joust game greater.

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Old Ben said:

ktom said:
Every other draw card in LCG requires you do win a challenge, lose a character, play a particular card type, or share the draw with another player.

Not sure, at least Golden tooth mine and Tommen are realtive easy draw mechanics, which shouldn´t be more complicated to pull off than draw from a pyromancer´s cache.

Tommen has a form of "only King" restriction on him, which got a lot more restrictive recently. And Golden Tooth Mine is a passive effect, which means the player has no real control over it (the certainty of revealing 1 plot per round notwithstanding). And both are Lannister, of course, where the threshold for draw tends to be lower in general (though still present).

Point being, draw is a lot harder to pull off in general now that we're in the LCG era. And I'm confident that is by design - and that the Cache was too reminiscent of CCG draw.

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I'd also say that for 2, playing GTM on anything put the flop is not always the best move (unlike the mindlessness of the Pyromancer's cache).