Some questions... Vanilla...

By SoyGreen, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

1. Training Token. So while in town - a hero can purchase a Training token for 500 coin. I presume they can purchase a training token for any trait. Take Runewhich Astarra for example - she starts with no melee or ranges Traits - and 3 magic. Therefore she starts with 3 wizardry skills. CAN SHE - in theory - purchase a trait in Melee - and then for 1000 coins purchase a Fighting skill? I can't think of an example as to when or why one would really want to do this - I am more curious if it is possible - or would she be limited to the Skill sets she has access to through her Starting skills. In Astarra's case - she only has Wizardry skills - so is she therefore limited to only having Wizardry skills? I am assuming she can - if she want to - purchase skills in other areas besides her Wizardry... I didn't see anything in the manuals indicating she was not able too.

2. Heroes are able to purchase a Treasure card from the town - only after they have opened a chest of that color. The example says no silver treasure can be purchased until a silver chest is opened... Does that also apply to copper? If a hero were to die and happened to have enough gold (after losing half of course) or just decided for some reason to go back to the town - and they wanted to buy a copper treasure - does that mean they have to have a copper treasure chest open first? or since that is essentially the "starter" color - can they buy? I am assuming - no treasure - no buy.

3. I read in one of the many collections of info something about stairs - and I wanted clarification. "LOS may be traced between a staircase tile & it's opposite end as well as all diagonal spaces (& vice-versa)." Does this mean - for example - a hero goes up a set of stairs - this area is now "explored" so monsters in this area may be activated and used... So - am I understading this correctly that say the hero goes back down the steps and is at the space right in front of the step. Can a monster then move to the top of the stairs and would this monster then have LOS to the hero on the bottom of the stairs and can he make a ranged attack against the hero?

Thanks!

SoylentGreen said:

1. Training Token. So while in town - a hero can purchase a Training token for 500 coin. I presume they can purchase a training token for any trait. Take Runewhich Astarra for example - she starts with no melee or ranges Traits - and 3 magic. Therefore she starts with 3 wizardry skills. CAN SHE - in theory - purchase a trait in Melee - and then for 1000 coins purchase a Fighting skill? I can't think of an example as to when or why one would really want to do this - I am more curious if it is possible - or would she be limited to the Skill sets she has access to through her Starting skills. In Astarra's case - she only has Wizardry skills - so is she therefore limited to only having Wizardry skills? I am assuming she can - if she want to - purchase skills in other areas besides her Wizardry... I didn't see anything in the manuals indicating she was not able too.

2. Heroes are able to purchase a Treasure card from the town - only after they have opened a chest of that color. The example says no silver treasure can be purchased until a silver chest is opened... Does that also apply to copper? If a hero were to die and happened to have enough gold (after losing half of course) or just decided for some reason to go back to the town - and they wanted to buy a copper treasure - does that mean they have to have a copper treasure chest open first? or since that is essentially the "starter" color - can they buy? I am assuming - no treasure - no buy.

3. I read in one of the many collections of info something about stairs - and I wanted clarification. "LOS may be traced between a staircase tile & it's opposite end as well as all diagonal spaces (& vice-versa)." Does this mean - for example - a hero goes up a set of stairs - this area is now "explored" so monsters in this area may be activated and used... So - am I understading this correctly that say the hero goes back down the steps and is at the space right in front of the step. Can a monster then move to the top of the stairs and would this monster then have LOS to the hero on the bottom of the stairs and can he make a ranged attack against the hero?

Thanks!

1) She can buy a Melee skill if she wants to. She also doesn't need to buy a trait dice before doing so either, she can just buy the Melee skill with having no trait dice in Melee.

2) Yes, if you haven't opened a copper chest yet then you can't buy copper treasure.

3) I think if I understand the question right the answer is yes.

Thanks for the reply Remy. Here is the actual quote for Question #3:

Re: Stairs - page 7 of the PDF @ www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/33321

"Heroes and monsters (but not large monsters) may move from one staircase space to another space or a staircase of the same color for 1 movement point. LoS may be traced between a staircase tile and its opposite end as well as all adjacent spaces (and vice-versa)."

I didn't really see this talked about in the actual manuals... but I havn't looked terribly hard for it either... makes sense to me - Just wanted to be sure it was right - if I were to pull this against my unsuspecting heroes. :)

Stairs gets tricky mostly for things like the Breath template and Blast.

Big Remy said:

Stairs gets tricky mostly for things like the Breath template and Blast.

Oh - I suppose... So??? Do they go down or up stairs? In theory they should right?

SoylentGreen said:

Big Remy said:

Stairs gets tricky mostly for things like the Breath template and Blast.

Oh - I suppose... So??? Do they go down or up stairs? In theory they should right?

Breath, specifically not (FAQ pg2), blast probably but I'm not certain and not sure anyone can be.

As Remy said, it's tricky. Stairways are poorly defined.
RAW you get LOS through stairways to a limited area, and can move from stair to stair for 1 MP, but strictly speaking stairs are not adjacent to each other. You can attack across matching staircases as though they were adjacent, but that is not clear whether you can attack from one staircase to the spaces on the other side that you have LOS to but are not the matching staircase, or only from staircase to staircase. Attack across or attack through? Subtly different - maybe!
It is also not clear whether effects with a range (eg Command, Spiritwalker, etc) can operate through stairways.

It would be simpler if the rules said matching staircases were adjacent, but they do not. In fact they very carefully do not say they are when it would be easier to say that they are.
Since they are not adjacent to each other, how far apart are they? Effectively infinitely, like a portal? 1 space? some intermediate distance like the coloured Magic Gateways? It's not clear, even though it takes only 1 MP and is probably effectively 1 space apart (heck, it is a stairway that takes 1 MP, has LOS, and has no indication of 'magic'). But if it is one space apart with LOS, why not just call it adjacent and be done with it? Maybe they are magical effects or some wierd tech like a dual dimensional space? Who knows?

Seems like something that could easily be cleared up by a FAQ ruling - I will add it to the list Remy is compiling... Can be cleared up really easily I feel if stairs are declared as adjacent or not.

SoylentGreen said:

Seems like something that could easily be cleared up by a FAQ ruling - I will add it to the list Remy is compiling... Can be cleared up really easily I feel if stairs are declared as adjacent or not.

Umm, if you check that thread you will see what I have written there about questions.
This is not a simple question (at least, not if the answer is 'not adjacent', which we would expect).
It should be properly discussed how to word, and a number of potential answers offered up along with the question.
A simple question unfortunately just begs for a confusing answer here, because of the complexity.

This thread would be a good place to do that.
I haven't started looking at this - too busy on other questions so far, so I haven't got any starting suggestion.