If I shoot a character TB=2 with 2 wounds remaining with two identical guns which each do 5 wounds after armour with dual shot, what happens with crack shot?

Bullet A has TB removed to score 3 wounds

Bullet B scores 5 wounds.

Both in isolation cause criticals. Do I take a total of 8 wounds off for a critical 6 + 2 from the crack shot, or do I take bullet A for critical 1 + 2 =3. Then bullet B criitcal 3+5+2 =10?

I know in this example it doesn't matter as the character is probably dead either way, but there may be instances whether the bullets would each cause 1 point of critical alone. This would means either ciritical 4 (crack shot counts once) or critical 3 then critical 6 (crack counts twice) which would be much more devastating.

DarkWatcher said:

Let me see if I get it right: you shoot with Dual shot, and roll 12+armor damage total with both guns added together, then subtract TB once for 10 damage. Target has 2 wounds left, so that's an 8 critical. However you have Crack shot, which increases the critical to 10, an automatic kill. If I'm right about the premise, the answer is your second theory.

Not quite.

Shoot and hit dealing 14 damage - 4 (2x 2AP) = 10

10 -TB = 8

Wounds - 8damage = Critical 6 + 2 for Crack shot = Critical 8.

Or separate calculations approach:

Bullet A is the one that takes TB modifier. Bullet A does 7 damage - 2AP = 5.

5-TB = 5-2 = 3 damage

Wounds - 3 damage = Critical 1 + 2 for crack shot = Critical 3.

Now bullet B does 7 damage - 2AP = 5.
No TB modifier for this bullet because of Dual Shot.

Wounds - 5 damage (-3 - 5) = Critical 8 + 2 for crack shot = Critical 10.

Well I think the first one would apply, you apply Crack Shot only once.

Reasoning: Crack shot states: "When your ranged attack deals critical damage" specifying one bonus per ranged attack, not shot. Dual shot has you making one attack for both guns. Thusly Crack shot applies only once regardless that you are firing 2 shots in one attack.

The problem is Crack shot needed a little more explination of when exactly it should apply the extra damage. One could also say that it would add the extra damage for each hit but this would overpower auto fire weapons by letting them very quickly finish off a target once they got to critical damage.

The same problem also appears with the use of Mightyshot fyi, it has the same style of wording and could roll both ways.

Really I think this is a matter best left to each individual GM but you have my opinino atleast, I would say no it only applies once per attack roll, this clears up Autofire, scatter, accurate, anything that can gain additional dice or hits.

DarkWatcher said:

Ah it seems I forgot a bout the TB somehow, in which case I agree the total damage after TB and wounds are subtracted is 6, +2 for a total crit of 8. Of course if the OP just gave us the base numbers to begin with this would be alot easier to explain. The point is that the damage from both weapons are added together, AP applied twice, and TB applied once. Since there is only one critical, crack shot is applied only once.

Sorry for being unclear, Friend of the Dork.

Just a quick follow up, I have now spoken to my GM who has ruled that Crack Shot applies seperately to each hit, but with modifer that the +2 is to the read result not to the actual critical number.

For example:

Say the target has 0 wounds.

Hit 1 causes a grand total of 1 wound (after TB and Armour) ( Critical 1 ). The Crack Shot is applied and the GM reads out and applies the Critical 3 effect.

Hit 2 is a bit more painful and causes 3 wounds after armour. The new actual critical damage is Critical 1 + 3 = Critical 4. The Crack Shot is now applied to this result and the GM reads out the Critical 6 effect.

So to summarize, crack shot modifies the critical effect experienced, but not the running critical damage total.

DarkWatcher said:

First of all, I assume you are referring to 2 individual shots hitting such as from autofire, and not Dual Shot anymore, which only counts as a single attack.

Secondly, your GM is at liberty to change what he wants, but as the book says it , whenever you deal critical damage, you deal 2 points extra. Not just count critical as if it was 2 higher, the damage actually increases by 2. Thus in your example the second hit should deal a total of 8 critical damage.

However, remember that the value of this talent is debatable as many "goon" NPCs will not have any critical damage to track.

No. I am still talking about Dual Shot. We're taking it as two shots hitting the same area and working them out separately. This comes from having to work out the result of dual shots with difference pistol types, such as when I use Stub-Auto and Plasma pistol combo as the AP is so drastically different.

I know the book's wording on Crack Shot damage dealing 2 extra damage, but the GM has amended the interpretation to something that still fits (kind of) in the interest of balance. Goons may not track critical damage, but power-armoured sorceror bosses do. In a three v three gunfight crackshot and dual shot combination has the possibility of being a decider.

I once opened a combat with a dual head-shot that racked up to the last non-fatal critical damage. The opponent survived, dual-shot me back and took 15 of my 16 wounds off me. I forgot about the effect of crack shot and would have actually killed her outright. The GM was quite happy about this afterwards as he said that obliterating the gunslinger of the opposition before she got to shoot back would have made the fight rather dull.

DarkWatcher said:

Well, that's the GM's prerogative.

Although it's not really hard: A bolt pistol and laspistol shooting a dual shot against someone in guard flak works like this:

roll damage for bolt pistol: d10+5(tearing) for a result of 12. The penetration make the armor worthless, so damae is 12 plus:

d10+2 for a result of 7, armor reduces it to 3. Total damage is thus 15 minus TB of say 3, for 12 damage total.

Now if you instead work it out like 2 seperate shots as you said, then it would be alot less effective, and IMO make the talent useless. two weapon-wielder combines with semi or full auto would be so far superior that Dual Shot becomes useless.

I'd agree with Friend of the Dork here, as that's how I rule Dual Shot/Crack Shot as working.

I am about to create a rank 7 scum gunslinger. what are the most evil combinations of talents and equipment?

Eh wrong thread for that sort of question my friend. Try starting a new thread for it and just to give you something, consider the Metallican Gunslinger alternate teir from the Inq. Handbook. Take it early, get access to a lot of nasty combat talents faster.

Friend of the Dork said:

Hate to necro threads but I dont want to start a new one for it.

Crack shop applied only once at the end of the calculations seems reasonable to me. But what about Mighty Shot? Is this talent aplied twice for a +4 dmg?

Elesthor said:

YES you get it on both damage rolls. Unless the errata said something I forgot, might wanna check it.

Friend of the Dork said:

Errata doesn't say anything on it; its +2 damage each shot.