If the meta it's healthy, there IS NO "Best Build." There are many strong build archetypes that all interact in interesting ways. I think we currently have the healthiest meta since Wave 3.

You're the first person I heard say this in a long time. Let's just say I don't agree. Turrets still dominate and that's the point of this thread.

Turrets will always be good, but maybe our Atlanta meta is just different. We're seeing a lot of Y wings and HWKs but falcons and Decimators have all but disappeared, maybe one per tournament. And X wings have made a comeback now that turrets have backed off and the new phantom rules.

there's no reason to AC on Blue Squadrons when you have FCS available. Even ion cannon turrets would imo offer you a more flexible choice.

Why is AC not good here?

They are good. I very nearly won a 17-player Store Championship with that squad (2 hit points shy of winning it all). I don't trust dice, and Accuracy Correctors salvaged my horrible rolls (even with target locks) enough times during that tournament that I was glad I used them.

But I also think FCS might be good, possibly better, especially now that I've gotten a lot of tournament experience with 4 Blues.

FCS doesn't work on every target -- just the one you fired at last turn. That's pretty useful against a two-ship squad, but not so much against arc-dodgers and agile swarms. Accuracy Correctors work every round, and are great insurance if you have to barrel roll and can't target lock -- but you should target lock every chance you get.

I'm pretty good at throwing B-Wings around and getting shots on target without needing to barrel roll my actions away very often, so I'm usually able to target lock or focus. But I still like the insurance of Accuracy Correctors when I hit a cold streak of dice, or want to make a red maneuver or fly through an obstacle, which really opens up my maneuver options and keeps opponents on their toes.

Obviously, it's better to be target locked AND focused, and FCS is great with that IF you are able to keep a single ship in your sights repeatedly. That's not always easy. But in your meta, it could be.

there's no reason to AC on Blue Squadrons when you have FCS available. Even ion cannon turrets would imo offer you a more flexible choice.

Why is AC not good here?

FCS is one point cheaper (per ship) and you are likely to get more than 2 hits a shot with a TL (far more likely if you throw in a focus, and especially at range one)

AC is awesome for people who distrust dice (me), but probability is one our side with FCS B-wings.

2 hits per shot are also far less likely to punch through high agility (+ defensive tokens) than 3+, which is helpful against every single fat ship (low agility + guaranteed defenses, or aggressors) and especially against turrets where you simply need as many dice as possible

If the meta it's healthy, there IS NO "Best Build." There are many strong build archetypes that all interact in interesting ways. I think we currently have the healthiest meta since Wave 3.

The OP pointed out in his OP that his local meta is dominated by 3 builds, which means his meta isn't healthy. Local meta's are very different from the overall metagame. It's good to read the post and not just the thread's title.

BBBBZ would be a good list against this meta. Remember that against 2-ship builds like the ones in your meta it's extremely important to concentrate your fire on one ship until it's dead. Wasting turns against 1 ship only to let it get away and either recover shields or comeback when you're down to 1 ship is how you lose to a 2-ship list.

I've been wreaking face with this list:

Syndicate Thug Title/Ion Cannon/R4 Agro x3

Syndicate Thug "Genius"/Autoblaster turret/Bomb slot?Proton Bomb

Big ships can't handle it, especially Decimators. "Genius" always gets his bomb off, scares just about everyone, except Chewie.

If the meta it's healthy, there IS NO "Best Build." There are many strong build archetypes that all interact in interesting ways. I think we currently have the healthiest meta since Wave 3.

The OP pointed out in his OP that his local meta is dominated by 3 builds, which means his meta isn't healthy. Local meta's are very different from the overall metagame. It's good to read the post and not just the thread's title.

BBBBZ would be a good list against this meta. Remember that against 2-ship builds like the ones in your meta it's extremely important to concentrate your fire on one ship until it's dead. Wasting turns against 1 ship only to let it get away and either recover shields or comeback when you're down to 1 ship is how you lose to a 2-ship list.

I lost one game in my last tournament because I became obsessed in chasing down chewy.

If I had focus on Leebo when chewy escaped me i may have had a chance

I did a couple things wrone. And tunnel vision I believe was one.

I learned a huge lesson that game

lesson # 1 is big ships are faster than you. You give them enough ground, they'll bail on you. Don't chase them, it's pointless unless you enjoy the Benny Hill theme song.

Instead, swing around and hit the other *******

If there's only one left, head towards the center of the table. Where-ever the fattie is going, you'll have an easier time cutting across to it from the center.

And this is what I should have done

That's why lesson learned

I had chewy down to four hull after the first engagement

I had a feeling he was going to follow behind Leebo, and at last minute thought he may separate the two and go the other way.

So then I decided to cover more arcs by spreading out my formation

Which in turn left me chasing chewy and not all ships being able to fire, therefore he negated the dmg with the title and 3p0

Had i sent all ships in the direction in which I originally thought he was going to go, I'd have more guns facing chewy.

And if he did do the other move i still would have been shooting Leebo

In the end I killed chewy buy not before losing enough ships to call it game

It was a fun game and my opponent is good at flying it.

And i learned a valuable lesson

Don't get tunnel vision

And sometimes be unpredictable

Don't give them enough ground to escape, hold the middle and drive them into the corners where you can more easily cut off their escape routs. You kill slippery turrets by driving them them into a corner (by attacking from the middle of the board) and then cutting them off as they come out of the corner. People get into the bad habit of keeping generics on the edges of the map no matter what, but against the fat turrets you need to hold the middle so they can't jump across the map and get away from you.

So then I decided to cover more arcs by spreading out my formation
Which in turn left me chasing chewy and not all ships being able to fire, therefore he negated the dmg with the title and 3p0

Had i sent all ships in the direction in which I originally thought he was going to go, I'd have more guns facing chewy.
And if he did do the other move i still would have been shooting Leebo

And i learned a valuable lesson

Don't get tunnel vision

And sometimes be unpredictable

I think you may have learned the wrong lesson from that game. Spreading arcs is the opposite of focus fire, and the opposite of what I was talking about above. Your mistake wasn't that you were trying too hard to catch Chewie in arc, your mistake was you underestimated how much firepower you need to deal damage to Chewie through his defensive buffs. You went for the low variance "safe" play that had a better chance of giving you an attack, but a lower chance of actually winning you the game. The better play would have been the higher variance play of figuring out where Chewie would most likely end up and putting all your arcs slightly on and in front of that spot so he couldn't boost out of your arc. Even though you might guess wrong, having a non-zero% chance of having all of your guns on Chewie gives you a much better chance at winning the game then a 100% of getting 1 attack on him per turn.

Sometimes the play that feels the "safest" and has the lowest risk of immediate failure (like having Chewie boost out of your arc), is also the play that gives you the lowest chances of actually winning the game. The safe play is usually for when you are solidly ahead and are favored to win. But when you are flying a few generics against a Fat Falcon with an Engine and higher PS, you are the underdog and you need to go for the high risk plays that actually have the necessary impact to win you the game.

Think about it like this. You owe the bank and you're short $100 and they're coming to collect it in 5 minutes, or else they repossess your house. You're at a casino with 2 games, each take 3 minutes to play, one has a 10% odds to win $100, the other has 90% odds to win $50. On a normal day, you'd play the second game every time, but in this scenario, the second game has a 0% chance of keeping your house from being repossessed, which is strictly worse than the 10% you get from the first game.

My friends and I played recently. We did 2 on 2 with 100 points.

My Torkil Mux HWK with an Ion Cannon Turret wrecked everything with

Control

Control

Control

I would stick near my teammate's ships and whatever ship near us, that was the biggest threat, got called as Pilot Skill 0. Then I Ion'd him away. lolz abounded on my side.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/xwing-miniatures/images/5/55/Torkhil-mux-1-.png/revision/latest?cb=20141103180846

7x Scum z-95's, 7x Feedback Array.

You have enough numbers to vaporize fat turrets, and should you face a Phantom you can auto damage it.

Is this gonna be your sullen, defeatist, answer to everything?

i wonder how this would go...

2x Blue Squadron Pilot/title/tactician

2x Blue Squadron Pilot/ion cannon

??

seems to have the tools to combat the 2 ship lists out there.

its low PS will be a problem vs phantoms/soontir but those matchups wont be an autoloss if u fly well enough.

I've read every single one of your responses. Thanks for your help so far.

From what I've gathered, there are basically three kinds of builds that do well against this particular meta:

1. B-Wing-Centric builds: Features 3 B-Wings and a Y-Wing

e.g. 100 points

Pilots ------

Blue Squadron Pilot B-Wing (22), Fire-Control System (2), B-Wing/E2 (1), Tactician (2)

2x Blue Squadron Pilot B-Wing (22), Fire-Control System (2)

Gold Squadron Pilot Y-Wing (18), BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0), R3-A2 (2), Ion Cannon Turret (5)

I think these builds give you the most attack dice, but the downside is that it might be somewhat vulnerable to TIE Phantom.

2. Roark-Centric builds. Features Roark and other rebel ships

e.g. Mrfroggies's

Gold + R3-A2 + ICT (BTL-A4 title not required, but a nice option if you have it) - I do have the title

Blue + E2 + Tactician

Blue + Ion Cannon

Roak + ICT + Nien

Another variation I have seen online:

Airen Cracken + Swarm Tactics

Roark + Blaster Turret + Chewie + Moldy Crow

Blue B-Wing + FCS

Gold Y-Wing + BTL-A4 title + Stressbot + ICT

This gives you at least one 12 PS attacker, but the downside is that Roark is rather fragile.

3. Rebel Swarms - a mix of B-Wings, Y-Wings, Z-95s

BBBBZ (I am missing one B)

(B-wing) Blue Squadron Pilot, Advanced Sensors
(B-wing) Blue Squadron Pilot, Advanced Sensors, B-wing/E2, Tactician
(Y-wing) Gold Squadron Pilot, Ion Cannon
(Y-wing) Gold Squadron Pilot, Ion Cannon

[i am missing a Gold Pilot, but could make it a Gray.]

Themes of these builds: My understanding is that you use stress against builds that rely on actions (e.g. TIE Phantom and need to recloak) and builds that tend to get stressed a lot naturally (e.g. PtL builds). Ions are good for overall movement control, so that you can see where an enemy ship will go next turn (no guessing there). Is that correct?

Any advice on which of the three types of builds above is better?

Also, are there any builds that the Rebel Swarm builds shown above do poorly against?

Also, are there any builds that the Rebel Swarm builds shown above do poorly against?

Proper swarms, such as the classic 7- or 8-man TIE swarms or something like BBBBZ. The ion and stress effects are just annoying to them, rather than devastating, and they have the edge on both HP and raw firepower.

I see. So, the meta matchups are something like this, right?

Generally:

True Swarms > Control Builds > Turrets and Builds with few ships > Agility/Finesse builds (i.e. Soontir Fel) > True Swarms

Also:

True Swarms > Turrets and Builds with few ships

Control Builds > Agility/Finesse Builds (because ion limits how much finessing Soontir and friends can do)

Of course, this assumes that player skill for both sides is equal and that there are no extraneous factors affecting the course of the game (e.g. cheating).

Well if i saw this right, there are no Autothrusters in your Meta, so you could as well abuse turrets...

Turret heaven (100)

Torkil Mux — HWK-290 19

Ion Cannon Turret 5

Greedo 1

Feedback Array 2

Palob Godalhi — HWK-290 20

Opportunist 4

Blaster Turret 4

K4 Security Droid 3

Feedback Array 2

Hull Upgrade 3

Moldy Crow 3

Kavil — Y-Wing 24

Opportunist 4

Blaster Turret 4

R4 Agromech 2

I mean all those B-Wing propositions are okay and all, but here you have something that trades favorably against most 2-Ship turret lists. You plain outdamage Fat Han or similar builds (you have Kavil with 3-5 red, Godhali with 3-4, and an ion cannon) , Torkil Mux is useful to make anyone shoot last, or to just annihilate the occasional Phantom on his Z-95 stats. Double Pancake should be a somewhat even matchup. But you have a higher burst potential and if you take one down you should win. Against Autoceptors i put in a Feedback array, but feel free to dump it for something else in this meta.

Thanks, but I don't have 2 HWKS and even if I do, I don't like running HWKs. If I want to run turrets, I would probably just run Landash, Chewbo, or Corran Dash myself.

all hail fat han the king

i wonder how this would go...

2x Blue Squadron Pilot/title/tactician

2x Blue Squadron Pilot/ion cannon

??

seems to have the tools to combat the 2 ship lists out there.

its low PS will be a problem vs phantoms/soontir but those matchups wont be an autoloss if u fly well enough.

I'm also going to try something like this build, however i think A4 Y's might be better for the Ion. Saves you 2pts per ship (FCS or flecette cannons for your B's?), gives you the option for R3-A2 and has better damage. You lose the ion shot at R3 and the barrel roll though.

i wonder how this would go...

2x Blue Squadron Pilot/title/tactician

2x Blue Squadron Pilot/ion cannon

??

seems to have the tools to combat the 2 ship lists out there.

its low PS will be a problem vs phantoms/soontir but those matchups wont be an autoloss if u fly well enough.

I'm also going to try something like this build, however i think A4 Y's might be better for the Ion. Saves you 2pts per ship (FCS or flecette cannons for your B's?), gives you the option for R3-A2 and has better damage. You lose the ion shot at R3 and the barrel roll though.

yeah, i think the stress giving droid is needed in some matchups. i was just looking to keep the firepower there for punching through well shielded ships.

Also, are there any builds that the Rebel Swarm builds shown above do poorly against?

The seldom seen, but ever-deadly; Captain Jonus and Splash-Circus say hello.

Captain Jonus — TIE Bomber 22

Squad Leader 2

Seismic Charges 2

Gamma Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber 18

Assault Missiles 5

Seismic Charges 2

Gamma Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber 18

Assault Missiles 5

Seismic Charges 2

Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber 16

Assault Missiles 5

Seismic Charges 2

Thanks, but I don't have 2 HWKS and even if I do, I don't like running HWKs. If I want to run turrets, I would probably just run Landash, Chewbo, or Corran Dash myself.

HWKs are so badass. Their stats don't look great, but it's their synergy and abilities.

Also, are there any builds that the Rebel Swarm builds shown above do poorly against?[/size]

The seldom seen, but ever-deadly; Captain Jonus and Splash-Circus say hello.

yeah, i think the stress giving droid is needed in some matchups. i was just looking to keep the firepower there for punching through well shielded ships.

Thanks, but I don't have 2 HWKS and even if I do, I don't like running HWKs. If I want to run turrets, I would probably just run Landash, Chewbo, or Corran Dash myself.

But i really feel that all 3 named Scum HWKs can be very useful. Palob as an enabler for Opportunist is awesome, he is also scarily accurate with a Blaster turret for relatively little cost.

Torkil makes Phantoms cry and disrupts anyone else at least. He is also cheap and allows you to focus down very dangerous foes before they even get the chance to take a shot! Great!

I was very sceptical about Dace Bonearm at first but i played a Team Epic game where he caused 12 damage himself (with an Ion Cannon, yes he hit every single shot!) and enabled 2 more through his ability. Unbelievable! It helped that no one had him on the Radar, but it was awesome to see that he can perform!

My only suggestion is, try Playing a Scum HWK, they are awesome and pretty cheap so they can fit in a lot of lists. I am also convinced that this list could really make a mess of your meta as long as you don't start seeing Autothrusters a lot. Too bad you don't own 2 HWKs, but it's understandable considering how bad they were on Rebel side...

BBBBZ without the 4th B is not nearly as effective, nor is Panic Attack without 3 Tacticians.

But even though you don't have 3PO, it's still possible to run a Fat Falcon.

(55)

Chewbacca

-Push the Limit

-Jan Ors

-Kyle Katarn

-MF title

-Engine Upgrade

(44)

2x Blue Squadron Pilots

Every time you remove a stress token from Chewie, you get a focus token, which Jan turns into an evade token. Then take an Evade action, and then PTL for either a TL, Boost or Focus, whichever you need more. You get to mitigate 2 damage per turn and still get your action for the turn. Even if you get blocked you'll still get a free evade token. And of course you're not limited to 2 evades per turn like with 3PO, you could do any combination of 3 actions if you don't think your getting shot at or if you really need to boost into range 1 and make a 4 dice attack with TL+Focus.

You can also run it as Han with 3 Talas. If you're running Han, you'll want to focus as your offensive action.