according to the article, he gives you two additional red dice provided you only attack out of the left or right firing arcs

ergo, you're getting +2 dice but it's physically impossible to concentrate the additional damage on the same ship

getting a 5-6 dice broadside out of an MK2 sounds more than worth it, however. It's all going to come down to his cost to see whether or not this particular commander is worth it or just a trap

But it could be worded as only effecting 1 ship or a certain one. Either way he will be quite powerful on a MC80.

Might be powerful, but more situational I think.

Would you rather have to more red dice and just a 1 time shot at the same ship from the side hull zone of the mc80 or would rather fire from both the front and side hull zones? If you are just red dice range, then worth it, but if in medium blue dice range, not necessarily so.

It would be crazy good if you could apply this ability to every ship per round; I imagine that it probably has a limit of 1 ship per round.

It would be crazy good if you could apply this ability to every ship per round; I imagine that it probably has a limit of 1 ship per round.

My feeling too, or possibly large ships only.

i mean, compare it to the existing Commanders....it's massively more powerful than say, Tarkin giving a concentrate fire token to each ship. And he is a LOT of points. If Ackbar gave 2 dice on every side attack for every ship, i'd expect 50 for him at an absolute minimum, and even that might be too low.

It's the equivalent of two Enhanced Armaments per ship.....

The other thing to consider here is that (if I am remembering correctly) the Empire doesn't really throw as many red dice in their default configurations. In an absolute best-case scenario (for Rebels, lol), Ackbar would impact your whole fleet. Although I anticipate the other shoe dropping in a future preview either some kind of limitation to the number of uses or to the vessel size that can take advantage, like Motti and hull points (maybe small ships only see 1 additional broadside red?). It is also possible that the only drawback is indeed the inability to activate this ability if you use your fore or aft arc - and with the cap increase to 400, Ackbar simply comes at a remarkably high cost.

We obviously also don't know the battery armaments of the alternate versions of the ISD or Raider yet, but as long as you are not in a Rebel mirror match, maintaining range with a broadside focused Ackbar fleet (in best-case-scenario world) could put Imperial fleets on the wrong foot. It would absolutely be worth exploring once we know more about the good Admiral, these ships and their points!

What do you guys think of an Imperial-class being able to operate with only two command dials with Relentless costing only 3 points? There has been a lot of discussion about Ackbar, but that seems like an immensely powerful tool to give that much flexibility to a behemoth for what feels like an afterthought cost wise.

The other ISD titles will likely bring it into better perspective. It's certainly a deliciously thematic ability to give a vessel named Relentless though.

My favorite thing? TRACTOR BEAM!

Of course we don't know the actually mechanic yet but it will obviously impact movement in some way on your enemy, and I have a 8 dice front arc... And did a mention a way to influence the position of your opponent?

And then 8 dice... So influencing your opponents location+ 8 dice= BOOM

right?

What do you guys think of an Imperial-class being able to operate with only two command dials with Relentless costing only 3 points? There has been a lot of discussion about Ackbar, but that seems like an immensely powerful tool to give that much flexibility to a behemoth for what feels like an afterthought cost wise.

The other ISD titles will likely bring it into better perspective. It's certainly a deliciously thematic ability to give a vessel named Relentless though.

I think this has been kinda overlooked because we all ready have ways to Change the dials mid turn (such as weaspons/defense leiason) and Tarkin to add a lot a flexibility all ready

What do you guys think of an Imperial-class being able to operate with only two command dials with Relentless costing only 3 points? There has been a lot of discussion about Ackbar, but that seems like an immensely powerful tool to give that much flexibility to a behemoth for what feels like an afterthought cost wise.

The other ISD titles will likely bring it into better perspective. It's certainly a deliciously thematic ability to give a vessel named Relentless though.

it's very interesting, but it's also priced the same as liasons which have more situational but powerful effects related to command control. With Tarkin, they're basically turning your vessels into Command 1 ships for the purposes of dial stacking

I'm sure the other commanders will be pleased as punch, though.

The other thing to consider with Ackbar is he may only boost the second shot, as my understanding is you declare one attack at a time. Since you cannot reverse time, Ackbar will either boost the second shot, OR if he impacts both shots prevent you from shooting out the front or rear as the second shot.

Either way, he sounds like a slight upgrade to slaved turrets (as it looks like you get one extra die at the expense of the secod attack).

Thus far all commanders impact all the ships, so we can expect the same from Ackbar.

My favorite thing? TRACTOR BEAM!

Of course we don't know the actually mechanic yet but it will obviously impact movement in some way on your enemy, and I have a 8 dice front arc... And did a mention a way to influence the position of your opponent?

And then 8 dice... So influencing your opponents location+ 8 dice= BOOM

right?

Personally, I hope the tractor beam is NOT limited to enemy ships. I would love to have a way to slow down my own ships without spending a nav command / token.

I think Relentless will be

What do you guys think of an Imperial-class being able to operate with only two command dials with Relentless costing only 3 points? There has been a lot of discussion about Ackbar, but that seems like an immensely powerful tool to give that much flexibility to a behemoth for what feels like an afterthought cost wise.

The other ISD titles will likely bring it into better perspective. It's certainly a deliciously thematic ability to give a vessel named Relentless though.

it's very interesting, but it's also priced the same as liasons which have more situational but powerful effects related to command control. With Tarkin, they're basically turning your vessels into Command 1 ships for the purposes of dial stacking

I'm sure the other commanders will be pleased as punch, though.

True but Relentless doesn't take up an upgrade slot, which is going to end up being VERY valuable as more cards come out

There's a reason FFG pushes the YT-1300 for competitive play. It's important that the most popular and most recognizable ship in the SW canon see lots of table time.

My favorite thing? TRACTOR BEAM!

Of course we don't know the actually mechanic yet but it will obviously impact movement in some way on your enemy, and I have a 8 dice front arc... And did a mention a way to influence the position of your opponent?

And then 8 dice... So influencing your opponents location+ 8 dice= BOOM

right?

Personally, I hope the tractor beam is NOT limited to enemy ships. I would love to have a way to slow down my own ships without spending a nav command / token.

I wonder if it'll influence different ship sizes differently

we've never seen one used on anything larger than a corvette, after all, and it'd be just the thing to slow those pesky buggers down

There's a reason FFG pushes the YT-1300 for competitive play. It's important that the most popular and most recognizable ship in the SW canon see lots of table time.

very much agreed

I just wish the X-wing version didn't have its competitive nature based on such a confoundedly lazy advantage that basically removes the focus of the game for the opponent (turret completely ignoring maneuvering with 360 arcs). In Armada, there is no such advantage as the squadrons don't have arcs at all and must instead rely on ranges, capital ship resources, and order of activation to determine their offense, so in all likelihood it's not going to be nearly as obnoxious (also no upgrade slot for cp30 )

The rogue ability could be considered an obnoxious rule, but it makes sense for independent ships and is specified to work during the "Squadron" phase. If you can't order around rogue ships, squadrons may have the upper hand with the squadron command. If you can, then at the very least there is a reason not to use the rogue advantage (so you can attack during the ship phase) whereas primary weapon turrets in X-wing have absolutely no built-in detriment and you have to rely on external upgrades (thrusters) to give them even the slightest hint that player choice matters.

I think I have more fear of the new keywords being obnoxious rather than a specific hero squadron like the Falcon. The move and shoot rogue could be a menace, especially where it is coupled with bomber... but I think someone in this thread (I can't find you right now, sorry!) had a suspicion about "Grit" meaning moving despite being engaged... yikes! It'll be "say it ain't so" from me if that's the case. Hopefully there would be some risk/reward to that kind of action that would suit calling it 'gritty.'

Where is the line I have to wait in to get a star destroyer?

Likely at Gencon =)

Yeah. I'd just avoid that line if you actually want to do something while you're at GenCon.

Okey, let's just come back to earth.

We are playing with the core, some people may had proxied wave 2, but recently FFG has been changing cards before release (not only cost, but effects and stats) so it would be better to not go too crazy on predictions.

Second, we already have a "rogue" rule, but even better because you can activate at the same time as one ship, it's called Squadron Command, and it's hardly broken, being able to move and shoot in the squadron phase is good, but that hardly kills the game as the ability to do the same, but even better, is already in game.

Also, MC30, MC80, Assault Frigate, Nebulon B... FFG can't stop throwing at me my favourite ships, can they ?

I think I have more fear of the new keywords being obnoxious rather than a specific hero squadron like the Falcon. The move and shoot rogue could be a menace, especially where it is coupled with bomber... but I think someone in this thread (I can't find you right now, sorry!) had a suspicion about "Grit" meaning moving despite being engaged... yikes! It'll be "say it ain't so" from me if that's the case. Hopefully there would be some risk/reward to that kind of action that would suit calling it 'gritty.'

makes sense, though, given what we know about the falcon from the original trilogy

I'm not sure about risk/reward, but I highly doubt even the falcon is going to be able to inflict significant damage to a capital ship on its own, especially because it seems to lack bomber (I see an ability, grit, and rogue) so it'll be more of an anti-squadron tool. How effective it will be is going to depend on its price, because its not getting more than a shot per turn without outside modifiers unless Han's ability specifically allows for that.

I can't see any of the anti-ship values on these new ships, but I doubt even the bombers are going to have more than two dice. Most importantly, though, is that there's no one other than Rhymer who violates the "distance 1" range so the "rogue" keyword won't completely unhinge these ships.

Overall, I'm pretty excited about how these guys will turn out. Grit might not let them stick to squadrons, but squadrons packing hefty amounts of anti-squadron dice (ala interceptors and x-wings) are going to be very scary for them if launched with a squadron command.

Ummmm... Well I am a Rebel player for now but did anyone notice the Home One expansion is $39.95 and the ISD is $49.95?

MC80s are converted luxury liners, so you pay less for both used and secondary materials.

MC80s are converted luxury liners, so you should be paying more - once to build it as a luxury liner, and again to strip out all of the fancy stuff and retrofit armor and guns and reactors and shields and engines to a platform that wasn't originally designed to support them.

Well to help cover costs maybe it doubles as a Battle Cruiser and Luxury Liner.

Just imagine you and your lovely wife playing high stakes cards with General Calrissian, having a fine sea food dinner with Admiral Akbar, dancing to the latest cantina music and finishing the night with watching the fireworks as an ISD is brought down by the Rebel Alliance. And the next time your family and friends asked how your trip was you too can say "It's a Trap!" Yes, you to can experience it all onboard the Home One where the only good Imperial is a dead Imperial.

This needs to be a poster a la intergalactic travel agency ads.

... but having a fine sea food dinner with Admiral Ackbar? You realize he has two, HUGE, omnidirectional eyes, right? HE'LL SEE YOU REACHING FOR THAT TARTAR SAUCE!

We loyal Imperials don't play with our fishmen food.

We ask politely for more melted butter.

Mmmmm...calamari...

Just wow, the release of Wave 2 was awesome and reading this thread has been fun too. So many things to discuss...

1. Ships

OMG OMG ISDs and MC80s on the table top. I am drooling like a Hutt at a Tuskette buffet.

2. MC80

I am an imperialist at heart. When I first watched SW IV with my parents 20yrs ago, I was rooting for Darth Vader and the Death Star. My parents later told my my first question after the movie was, "Will vader be alright?" rofl. Sadly, my competitive nature has forced me to play Rebel for nearly every board, card, or miniature game so I don't lose. (yeah yeah maybe my playstyle is inherently to the strengths of the Rebels like hit and run/hero based) That said, Armada's core set has done a good job balancing the factions and I don't see a clear Rebel advantage.

The MC80 and Ackbar (qualified by future FFG changes and missing information) seem to tip the scale for the Rebels. With the open maneuvers and initiative, I have been able to dance around VSDs keeping out of their front arc. While the MC80 doesn't have the same maneuverability, it shouldn't be too hard to dance around the skirts pelting at range 2-3 using red die while assigning the +2 attack die to my Assault Frigate to suicide between Imperial capitals.

3. Relentless

Now that is just a great title and well tied to its abilities. In private play with friends I am so gonna steal an ISD, slap Emancipator on it and dare them to come at me, rofl.

Just wow, the release of Wave 2 was awesome and reading this thread has been fun too. So many things to discuss...

1. Ships

OMG OMG ISDs and MC80s on the table top. I am drooling like a Hutt at a Tuskette buffet.

2. MC80

I am an imperialist at heart. When I first watched SW IV with my parents 20yrs ago, I was rooting for Darth Vader and the Death Star. My parents later told my my first question after the movie was, "Will vader be alright?" rofl. Sadly, my competitive nature has forced me to play Rebel for nearly every board, card, or miniature game so I don't lose. (yeah yeah maybe my playstyle is inherently to the strengths of the Rebels like hit and run/hero based) That said, Armada's core set has done a good job balancing the factions and I don't see a clear Rebel advantage.

The MC80 and Ackbar (qualified by future FFG changes and missing information) seem to tip the scale for the Rebels. With the open maneuvers and initiative, I have been able to dance around VSDs keeping out of their front arc. While the MC80 doesn't have the same maneuverability, it shouldn't be too hard to dance around the skirts pelting at range 2-3 using red die while assigning the +2 attack die to my Assault Frigate to suicide between Imperial capitals.

3. Relentless

Now that is just a great title and well tied to its abilities. In private play with friends I am so gonna steal an ISD, slap Emancipator on it and dare them to come at me, rofl.

I want my ISD sooooooo bad.

I think I have more fear of the new keywords being obnoxious rather than a specific hero squadron like the Falcon. The move and shoot rogue could be a menace, especially where it is coupled with bomber... but I think someone in this thread (I can't find you right now, sorry!) had a suspicion about "Grit" meaning moving despite being engaged... yikes! It'll be "say it ain't so" from me if that's the case. Hopefully there would be some risk/reward to that kind of action that would suit calling it 'gritty.'

makes sense, though, given what we know about the falcon from the original trilogy

I'm not sure about risk/reward, but I highly doubt even the falcon is going to be able to inflict significant damage to a capital ship on its own, especially because it seems to lack bomber (I see an ability, grit, and rogue) so it'll be more of an anti-squadron tool. How effective it will be is going to depend on its price, because its not getting more than a shot per turn without outside modifiers unless Han's ability specifically allows for that.

I can't see any of the anti-ship values on these new ships, but I doubt even the bombers are going to have more than two dice. Most importantly, though, is that there's no one other than Rhymer who violates the "distance 1" range so the "rogue" keyword won't completely unhinge these ships.

Overall, I'm pretty excited about how these guys will turn out. Grit might not let them stick to squadrons, but squadrons packing hefty amounts of anti-squadron dice (ala interceptors and x-wings) are going to be very scary for them if launched with a squadron command.

I just hope the single-ship hero units aren't too powerful. The Falcon as good as it is, couldn't take on 2-3 squadrons of Tie Fighters directly. With 7 hitpoints and what looks like two brace tokens, it is already very tanky for a squadron. It at least has 3 anti-fighter dice.

3 TIE Squadrons should kill the Falcon. 9 Blues with 3 re-rolls will kill it before the TIEs go down with room to spare if the Falcon has 3 dice back, even with 2 Braces. Even with Brace you're taking a minimum of 1 damage from the attack.

Even average rolls with have the Falcon dead on the 2nd round if my extremely tired maths is at all right.

Basically, don't throw it into 3 squadrons of TIEs alone.

Looking at the preview image for the Rogues and Villains, I'm pretty confident in the following abilities on the hero cards:

Han Solo (Millennium Falcon)

At the start of the Ship phase [you may move?]

as though you were activating.

Which makes sense, given that the Falcon is meant to be the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy, despite its 3 speed.

Dash Rendar (Outrider)

While attacking, you [may attack?]

each enemy squadron within

distance 1.

I can only presume the Outrider has fewer anti-squadron dice, because if correct, that promises to be a terrifying ship, especially with the keywords Rogue and Bomber

I only made it through about half of the posts so if I am repeating someone, apologies, but firstly, I doubt ackbar's ability effects all rebel ships,

second, the home one with ackbar and all those red dice circling the board at range 3 and hammering everything sould be awesome.

3 TIE Squadrons should kill the Falcon. 9 Blues with 3 re-rolls will kill it before the TIEs go down with room to spare if the Falcon has 3 dice back, even with 2 Braces. Even with Brace you're taking a minimum of 1 damage from the attack.

Even average rolls with have the Falcon dead on the 2nd round if my extremely tired maths is at all right.

Basically, don't throw it into 3 squadrons of TIEs alone.

Well if Grit and Rogue function like people are thinking, Han will be able to hit and run against enemy squadrons. I hope he's expensive, because having to use 3 Ties just to take out one squadron doesn't seem cost effective for you.