Theon's triggered ability reads:

Response: After you win a challenge in which Theon Greyjoy participates, choose a [stark] or [Greyjoy] character. If it is Summer, stand it. If it is Winter, kill it.

Can I trigger that after winning a challenge with Theon even though there is no season at the moment (and thus neither effect described in the second sentence can happen)? I believe so, but want to see if others (read: ktom ) agree. ("Why?" you ask? New Eddard...)

LetsGoRed said:

Correct. If it is neither season, there is no resolution after the target.

LetsGoRed said:

True (and have already been playing with this myself), but with the new Eddard, it's not like it matters what the resolution of Theon's ability will be; it's canceled! But good plan to make sure the season is a variable for resolution as opposed to a play restriction for initiating.

hmmm, i think this has to be forwarded to nate. I think tis like To be a stag and i'm fairly sure that Luke got confirmation from Nate that in order to play TBaS you have to be able to get the guy out of the discard pile in NYC.

Lars said:

That should be the wrong answer for To Be a Stag. Returning the character from the discard pile is an effect - and there is no target. Effects are perfectly free to fail. If you are already done with your turn in Marshalling, you could still discard a Sea or kneel a Street to lower the cost of the next character you play that phase, even though you will have no further chance to play a character. If there are no characters in play, you could still pay 4 influence and play Westeros Bleeds if you want. The only reasons you could not initiate an effect is if you cannot pay the costs, the play restrictions are not met or a required target is not available. To Be a Stag does not use the word "choose," so there is no required target. As long as you have a Power Struggle plot in your used pile, it's essentially a free "stand" effect, regardless of the state of your discard pile.

That said, the situation with Theon is totally different. As we said, in order to successfully initiate an effect, you must be able to pay the cost (Theon has no cost), meet the play restrictions (win a challenge with Theon as a participant) and have legal targets ("choose a Stark or GJ character" - no other limitations on the kind of character you choose). Beyond that, everything is an effect. The "if it is WInter/if it is Summer" bit is simply a variable in how the resolution may take shape.

Look at it this way: Can I play Seasick if you don't have any standing influence (and thus the option to kneel 1)? Can I use Davos' save if I don't have any gold (and thus the option to keep him in play)? These are options/variable in how the resolution takes shape, not a limitation on whether the effect can be initiated in the first place.

Just to clarify, during the NYC tournament we called Nate for a clarifcation, particularly with regard To Be A Wolf/Dragon/Stag. He replied that Wolf could "fail" to find something, but both Dragon and Stag needed legitimate "targets" (yes Kevin, I know, but I'm too tired to come up with an alternative term right now) in order for it to be played. If this is incorrect, we should have it FAQ'd before GenCon.

Also, is the viability of "exact" reprints in the play guidelines somewhere? The obvious difference in card quality would seem to obviate against it. I can pick out my old Distractions quite easily in a deck. And I'd hate to be thought a cheater. ~Mostly.

Maester_LUke said:

But that's the point. Since "target" is not the right term, Dragon and Stag can "fail" as the rules are written, too. So yeah, we'd need an FAQ entry if Nate wants it to be otherwise.

ktom said:

Unless Nate knows something we don't, which is perfectly possible, I really hope these don't get an FAQ entry. It's not like they're broken, or part of some crazy combo, as they are now.

Deathjester26 said:

I would argue that in a case like this, if Nate knows something we don't, we're going to want an FAQ entry to let the rest of us in on it.