If a 1-hull loaded Corran doesn't pull a green move then he's handing them a full kill. I can't imagine a scenario where I would risk a full loss for my meager non-augmented double tap to give me better odds of closing a gap than just fast-playing and regenning shields.

I get where you're going with this shield regen, but I'm still not seeing a scenario where partial points is actually worse, even assuming you have time for multiple turns. There's no doubt partial points is better as you get closer to the end in that situation.

I mean, if you have a 49 point Corran Horn under the current system with 1-hull and are ahead, what's your incentive to engage anyway? The no-brainer is to try and regen, no matter the situation is on time. You have 49 points on the board and need to save them, regardless of the hull. Partial points changes that scenario, at least near the endgame, and it certainly changes it for your opponent if you don't end the game full up.

Another problem with ships that can regenerate shields and/or hull if we went to partial MoV.

Will they just lead another ship on while they recharge before finally going in for the kill? Sounds like the least fun you can have while playing X-wing.

Don't they do this anyway when they're ahead?

Partial points is not worse. It's just harder to implement. You also get some weird situations. Take this for instance.

If a Tie Fighter has a hull upgrade and takes 2 damage, it has two hull left. How many points is that worth vs a normal tie with a different three point upgrade that also has only two hull left? One of them lost more health overall, but they both have the same health left in the end. If you do it percentage wise, the one that only took one hit is worth more points than the one who took two, even though they are now equal ships on the table

Partial points is not worse. It's just harder to implement. You also get some weird situations. Take this for instance.

If a Tie Fighter has a hull upgrade and takes 2 damage, it has two hull left. How many points is that worth vs a normal tie with a different three point upgrade that also has only two hull left? One of them lost more health overall, but they both have the same health left in the end. If you do it percentage wise, the one that only took one hull is worth more points than the one who took two, even though they are now equal ships on the table

I certainly see that point and I can understand the difficulty of implementation. It's a reason I like implementing it for big ships only, as those tend to currently be the only ships that are both resilient and expensive and take advantage of the current MoV system. I don't really mind regenerating Corran Horn, since he can drop in couple of shots.

Dear god, no partial points. SWLCG tiebreakers is annoying enough.

And 2 ship builds have been around since Wave 2. I don't get where people think they are going away. Just less common, perhaps.

I am not a fan of partial points. There is not a big ship out there that I cannot drop in time if I focus on it. One thing I would say is that 60 minute rounds might be a bit too low. 75 is more standard I think, and largely ends this discussion.

I hope we keep 75 as the default tourney time, even if it means playing one less round before the cut. One extra game does less to sort out the cream than letting the games we do play get closer to a decisive finish.

And 2 ship builds have been around since Wave 2. I don't get where people think they are going away. Just less common, perhaps.

They were a LOT less common back then. Wave 5 winners were 44% 2 ship lists and 63% 2 or 3 ships.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tKqjaUIJ0nU_LxA29sFcSXA/htmlview

And 2 ship builds have been around since Wave 2. I don't get where people think they are going away. Just less common, perhaps.

They were a LOT less common back then. Wave 5 winners were 44% 2 ship lists and 63% 2 or 3 ships.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tKqjaUIJ0nU_LxA29sFcSXA/htmlview

You clearly do not remember the Summer of Double Falcons. They were THE squad to beat in 2013 Regionals (aka Store Championships). Sure, they died down post Wave 3, but that does not change that the complaints were just as loud and numerous back then.

No, I wasn't on the forums here until October 2013, and wasn't collecting stats on 2013 Regionals. Do you know if anyone did back then?

Your opponent drops out early = your SoS gets tanked..

Basically, what happened at tables - other than your own, affected you.

I would only point out that if you face 2 fish in the early rounds you get a bonus for facing easy opponents and you get rewarded for having a High MoV. Yes it's understandable to be sore if your opponent dropped and left you with a low Strength Of Schedule, but it speaks to the name of what it is "Strength Of Schedule.

Partial Points opens some weird tactics that could really distort the game. Lets say I have 2 Tie Fighters infront of my Boba Fett who has a Heavy Laser Cannon. One Tie fighter is at 1 hull while the other is at full health. So I can game the system by choosing to shoot at the full health Tie since my HLC has a better potential of getting more available hull on the untouched Tie vs Killing the other but Only getting one Hull. Yes you may get shot back at by both and lose more points but there is a difference in the choice you have to make.

A partial point system rewards poor flying. If I just make sure I have a shot on any ship I'm rewarded by points vs having to follow the damaged ship to finish the job. This could strengthen the hold Turrets have on the Meta as they will always have shots and getting points........

The game was not designed with a partial point scoring system in place but rather the total ships cost vs it's hull and shield values. Here's an example, Academy Pilot 3 hull at 12 points = 4points per hit behind 3 agility

Howlrunner 3 hull 18 points = 6 points per hit behind 3 agility

Rookie Pilot 2 shield 3 hull 21 points = 4.2 points per hit behind 2 agility

Wedge 2 shields 3 hull 29pts + 5.8 points per hit behind 2 agility

Lets shorten this

Han Solo = 3.5 points per hit.....

Rear Admiral Chiraneau = 2.8 points per hit

So anyone who wants to have a partial point system will ensure Turrets will live forever!!

P.S. Naturally YT-1300 did well out of the gate in wave 2, they were the only really competitive ship in wave 2. A wings, overpriced. Firesprays, overpriced. Interceptors, need auto thrusters vs turrets and the generics still aren't getting used.

2 ship lists dominating now is for a different reason. There is more variety of viable choices now - for untimed games.

I am not a fan of partial points. There is not a big ship out there that I cannot drop in time if I focus on it. One thing I would say is that 60 minute rounds might be a bit too low. 75 is more standard I think, and largely ends this discussion.

I hope we keep 75 as the default tourney time, even if it means playing one less round before the cut. One extra game does less to sort out the cream than letting the games we do play get closer to a decisive finish.

Yeah, this.

The difference between 60-minute and 75-minute rounds completely end this argument. It's VERY rare for a tournament to not end a round early with 75-minute rounds, as everyone has finished their match to total victory for one side or the other. Even in our last 33-player event, I think only maybe 3 or 4 of the rounds all told when to time because a single table was still being contested - nearly every match in the day resolved before time was hit.

Partial points are simply less important if you run the recommended 75-minute rounds.

Regarding the OP's point...

I think dual-ship lists ARE starting to fall out of favor. With the addition of autothrusters, Interceptors are now back in the game as viable craft, and the amount of damage they can soak up means an enemy only generating two attacks a turn is at best going to kill a single fighter a turn. If you've got four or five on the table...it's easy to put out enough damage, yourself, to stay ahead of them.

Three-ship lists, though - a 'Heavy Han' (if not 'Fat') with a pair of X-Wings or B-Wings or something...really just feel a LOT more dangerous.

Re: partial point math above.

But if you normalize by actual durability, not hit points, and also account for tank vs glass cannon, then all the ships come out pretty close to each other.

And it doesn't reward poor flying, because focus fire is (usually) the best tactic.

In games that complete, it simply gives a more accurate value on the actual MARGIN of victory. If I survive with 8HP on my IG88, then my actual margin of victory is clearly higher than if I only had 1 HP left. Currently those two scenarios are treated as being equal when they are not.

In games that DO go to time, no partial points rewards slow playing with a fat ship and winning on time. If you have not lost on time to a player that you were clearly going to beat if the game were untimed, then consider yourself lucky.

(edit for quote)

This can be true, but not always. And it is completely outside your control. Games can still easily go to time at 75 minutes. In the 2 small SC I went to, over half the games went to time even with 75 minute rounds. So it depends on the players, and again, that is totally outside your control.

75 minute rounds do not fix the problem, and even if all rounds were untimed, it would still be mathematically favorable to run only 2 ships.

I like my 3-5 thank you very much.

Your opponent drops out early = your SoS gets tanked..

Basically, what happened at tables - other than your own, affected you.

I would only point out that if you face 2 fish in the early rounds you get a bonus for facing easy opponents and you get rewarded for having a High MoV. Yes it's understandable to be sore if your opponent dropped and left you with a low Strength Of Schedule, but it speaks to the name of what it is "Strength Of Schedule.

Partial Points opens some weird tactics that could really distort the game. Lets say I have 2 Tie Fighters infront of my Boba Fett who has a Heavy Laser Cannon. One Tie fighter is at 1 hull while the other is at full health. So I can game the system by choosing to shoot at the full health Tie since my HLC has a better potential of getting more available hull on the untouched Tie vs Killing the other but Only getting one Hull. Yes you may get shot back at by both and lose more points but there is a difference in the choice you have to make.

A partial point system rewards poor flying. If I just make sure I have a shot on any ship I'm rewarded by points vs having to follow the damaged ship to finish the job. This could strengthen the hold Turrets have on the Meta as they will always have shots and getting points........

Look, no matter what scoring system, there are always tactics that "game the system." Currently, one of those is one health expensive ships running away at the end of games to maintain all of their points.

Frankly, though, I find your examples ...hyperbole...especially the idea of strengthening turrets within the meta. Again, all of that is true of turrets now, especially vs. swarms and mini-swarms. They are still getting their shots and points (because their opponent's squad is often in smaller chunks) but they are keeping all of their own points regardless of how much hull is taken off. It just feels better to some that that advantage is acceptable because they are destroying whole ships.

2 ship lists will always be strong contenders if not outright favored in a scoring system that awards 0 points for a partial kill. Fundamental math. Get away with a 1-2 HP fat ship at the end of the round, and at a minimum it has a massive impact on your MoV. At best it gives you an outright victory when you clearly would have been destroyed if the game were untimed.

2 ships is the new normal.

what HE said.

so what is the best counter for 2 ship lists? lots of turrets?

so what is the best counter for 2 ship lists? lots of turrets?

"fight fire with fire" is a purely figurative statement

if you stack fire with fire, all you get is more fire

(unless you're talking about range 1-2 turrets, in which case I have to point out the excessive nature of big ship boosts and rolls)

so what is the best counter for 2 ship lists? lots of turrets?

Another 2-ship list with Fire-Control System?

All hail our robotic assasin overlords!

All hail our robotic assasin overlords!

I, for one, welcome our new Terminator Overlords.

(Provided especially if I am flying them)

It's going to be double ig's all over regionals. If you thought double falcons was bad just wait for these guys.

You can outplay igs (as in you possess the possibility to, notvthat it's easy)

You can't outplay a 360 arc. You can only throw lots of dice at them

I'll welcomeour robotic overlords if they oust the fat asses off their throne

Arcdodging against droids is one thing , arc dodging against turrets thats something else...

Bring on the ig s!

http://teamcovenant.com/blog/2015/04/06/our-x-wing-store-championship/?utm_content=buffer56530&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Guess not