I still love ye olde two ship lists. And the past few waves have made them chart toppers and very reliable. However, a lot has changed recently with phantoms, debris etc and I am seeing more and more multi ship lists toppling the former kings. With regionals coming up and my current plan to run the Fett-88 duo, I am starting to wonder...

Is there a better way?

I think two ship lists was always going to be a limited time thing, wave six has several ways to take out a phantom or Corran early on like feedback array, with decloak changes your not as tied to high ps and let's you take larger numbers to counter large turret ships.

I'm hoping we see less and less 2 ship builds. I think people have figured out lists that can beat a 2 ship list just b/c they have dominated FAR TOO WELL in the last few months.

Down with the meta! Long live the meta.

2 ship lists will always be strong contenders if not outright favored in a scoring system that awards 0 points for a partial kill. Fundamental math. Get away with a 1-2 HP fat ship at the end of the round, and at a minimum it has a massive impact on your MoV. At best it gives you an outright victory when you clearly would have been destroyed if the game were untimed.

2 ships is the new normal.

god I wish they would go away

but they won't

M.o.V and lack of partial scoring will always make them viable, as have the improvements to more recent ships relative to the old imperial firespray (i.e, scum firesprays can be upgraded to be worth 50% of your list whereas imperials were traditionally ignored because they were inefficient) have made every other big ship apart from the shuttle a viable candidate for part of a 2-ship list

Hoping turrets will be a less common sight, at least, but I doubt fat han or dash will go anywhere. I've seen far fewer decimators, though, since they've seem to have lost their luster with no more crazy phantoms to hide behind.

2-ship lists are probably here to stay, but a lot smaller fraction of them are turrets now.

2 ship lists will always be strong contenders if not outright favored in a scoring system that awards 0 points for a partial kill. Fundamental math. Get away with a 1-2 HP fat ship at the end of the round, and at a minimum it has a massive impact on your MoV. At best it gives you an outright victory when you clearly would have been destroyed if the game were untimed.

2 ships is the new normal.

The phantoms dominance really pushed out things like swarms and positional damage dealers like B wings. The meta is evolving rapidly now. A phantom can no longer merely elect to be behind a group of ships that would normally get eaten alive. B-wings, tie swarms, interceptors, y-wings and more all have a place now, as well as the wider multitude of EPTs that go alongside them that were once ignored in favor of VI or ships that relied on other EPTs to stay in the game.

Two ships are still very strong, no doubt. But are the counters starting to emerge? Biggs, Daggers, etc.

2 ship lists will always be strong contenders if not outright favored in a scoring system that awards 0 points for a partial kill. Fundamental math. Get away with a 1-2 HP fat ship at the end of the round, and at a minimum it has a massive impact on your MoV. At best it gives you an outright victory when you clearly would have been destroyed if the game were untimed.

2 ships is the new normal.

This is a tricky proposition for a scoring system. Sure it will change the viable squads in the meta but what other impact will it have. MoV was a change that i saw as unnecessary as SoS was fine and widely used in other competitive environments. Sure there are flaws in any system, SoS would see the Winning players punished if the earlier opponents dropped and no longer contributed towards your SoS. MoV however makes you play certain squads, and/or keeps certain squads viable.

If the change is made to a Partial Point Scoring System, we will inevitably see a heavy return of the swarm. You would then be rewarded for bulking up to make each shield and hull worth less points. It could mean a 4 Shuttle list with Shield upgrades on each could become a monster to deal with since the value of each hit is just over 2 points. The Decimator would be the worse ship in that format as it will just bleed points from the word go.

SoS had the downside of unfairly disadvantaging players based on drops, etc. There are many elements outside of your control in SoS and at a minimum, MoV puts the control back in your hands. The upside of SoS is that it's bottom line and has less impact on the game itself.

I do prefer MoV to SoS, if only because I prefer that my score be entirely in my hands. Beating Mr. Salty-Guy, who then immediately drops, then beating Mr. Salty's rage-quitting younger brother, then losing the third match, I am in a much worse spot than the other 2/1's out there, even if I played excellently.

Both have merits, for sure, and I can see the preference for one over the other.

I'm hoping they introduce partial points for ships. That will surely be the death knell for big ship lists at events.

The shield-regenerating astro's will get a big bump from that if they do. Is my 49-point Corran going to turn and shoot at you in the last two rounds before time is called? Nope. Just going to take my 49 points to the end thank you...

At least it would be a change in meta...

The shield-regenerating astro's will get a big bump from that if they do. Is my 49-point Corran going to turn and shoot at you in the last two rounds before time is called? Nope. Just going to take my 49 points to the end thank you...

or it'll just get obliterated in one round

unlike fat turrets, you actually gotta be careful with your small ships

Whisper's gone. Nobody else can kill that ship.

My local meta went entirely the other way after scum was released. Only sporadic turret use and never by top players.

a 3 agility, 5 health ship that's not even as maneuverable as a tie interceptor is not exactly difficult to kill r2-d2 or no

Whisper was by far a more difficult nut to crack than Mr. Horn, at least in my opinion

with things such as super Dash and Aggressors still prowling around, there are plenty of ships that are quite capable of trivially killing a careless corran

Trust me 2 ships are going nowhere especially dual aggressors. I predict regionals will have many dual agressor lists, like the old double falcons.

The shield-regenerating astro's will get a big bump from that if they do. Is my 49-point Corran going to turn and shoot at you in the last two rounds before time is called? Nope. Just going to take my 49 points to the end thank you...

You realize that ship actually has MORE incentive to do exactly that now, right, especially when it's taken damage? With a partial points system, on it's last hull it might have to actually engage.

Every squad I faced in my last Store Championship contained two ships: IG-4000, Han and Keyan, Soontir and Kenkirk, two flavors of Chewbo.

2 ship lists will always be strong contenders if not outright favored in a scoring system that awards 0 points for a partial kill. Fundamental math. Get away with a 1-2 HP fat ship at the end of the round, and at a minimum it has a massive impact on your MoV. At best it gives you an outright victory when you clearly would have been destroyed if the game were untimed.

2 ships is the new normal.

This is a tricky proposition for a scoring system. Sure it will change the viable squads in the meta but what other impact will it have. MoV was a change that i saw as unnecessary as SoS was fine and widely used in other competitive environments. Sure there are flaws in any system, SoS would see the Winning players punished if the earlier opponents dropped and no longer contributed towards your SoS. MoV however makes you play certain squads, and/or keeps certain squads viable.

If the change is made to a Partial Point Scoring System, we will inevitably see a heavy return of the swarm. You would then be rewarded for bulking up to make each shield and hull worth less points. It could mean a 4 Shuttle list with Shield upgrades on each could become a monster to deal with since the value of each hit is just over 2 points. The Decimator would be the worse ship in that format as it will just bleed points from the word go.

Just like I said in the post above, a 4 Shuttle list actually has more advantages now than it would under a partial points system since get nothing unless you kill the whole thing.

While I see your point about the Decimator, I don't see how partial points is worse overall or helps the swarm more than the two ship lists, since while your prediction of people bulking up with swarms may be true, but at the same time, most swarms are made up of very vulnerable ships.

The ships that I think are actually worse off are interceptor type ships, since they pay a lot for each hull and, even though it can take a lot to get through them they do tend to take some damage during the course of the game.

Every squad I faced in my last Store Championship contained two ships: IG-4000, Han and Keyan, Soontir and Kenkirk, two flavors of Chewbo.

My experience was the same. Lots of 2-ship against my 3. Incidentally even the really good players who had won past events did not make the cut. Cut was all 3+.

I think this talk of MoV and 60-minute rounds pushing 2-ship lists overlooks another simple fact: A lot of 2-ship lists are really good. Expensive "half-my points" ships are too good and too diverse now for any fix to really remove them from the competitive scene.

The shield-regenerating astro's will get a big bump from that if they do. Is my 49-point Corran going to turn and shoot at you in the last two rounds before time is called? Nope. Just going to take my 49 points to the end thank you...

You realize that ship actually has MORE incentive to do exactly that now, right, especially when it's taken damage? With a partial points system, on it's last hull it might have to actually engage.

I love the variety that I am seeing across the forums. Last week my locla store had its X-Wing night. There were three, three ship build and several 4-5 ship unamed builds. There were no two ship builds. Closest was a Two IG list with a Z-95. He easily could have dropped the Z for better upgrades on the IG's. Funny someone mentioned mos ttop players do not take turrets, the game store I play at, the top two guy always run 3-4 turrets. Our top guy normally run 3-4 Y wings with a HWK mixed in, almost always all with turrets.

What was wrong with Strength of Schedule?

Your opponent drops out early = your SoS gets tanked..

Basically, what happened at tables - other than your own, affected you.

Another problem with ships that can regenerate shields and/or hull if we went to partial MoV.

Will they just lead another ship on while they recharge before finally going in for the kill? Sounds like the least fun you can have while playing X-wing.